Hmm...Can anybody say multiplier/class expansion?

[coachwagz]

HISTORIAN:

How absurd can one be to use an argument of who or what is "elite." If I had to guess, the small sampling of student athletes you spoke with would be effected "negatively" from such a division. However, I'm sure if you spoke with OLDSCHOOL's athletes, they'd be more likely to be FOR dividing the classes.

To create an arguement that any individual's efforts to win any race on a given day can make them more or less elite. . .just makes me giggle.


OLDSCHOOL:

I'm with you. What school did you/do you coach at? (And if you want change from my last post, I'm willing to give back a few cents.)

[historian]

Pretty much my point exactly. I can make a good argument that your athletes were deserving of a chance to run on the big stage ahead of many of the A runners who actually did.

One class for individual events would not bother me, but I do not have a small school background.

[shotputter24]

im really glad IHSA did the multipier last year if not i may not have medaled at State last year... i kinda wished they would do the 3 class expansion a long time ago though.....

[nationalbound]

i think that when you create more classes, you water down competition.....although the collegiate is in multiple classes, and it has worked well.....but if you take the elite level of track (olympics, trials, various track meets of high calibur) there are not multiple classes, everyone competes to be the best, if your at the top, your at the top of it all...but not for long, there is always a constant battle

if you water the competition, who is really at the top, you won't know who is the best until you compete angainst them!!!

[dbandre]

The 3 Division Collegiate system was designed and put into place for these purposes.

Div I. - National Excellence
Div II. - Regional Excellence
Div III. - Participation

Some people forget that college athletic programs are supposed to enhance the whole student body's quality of life on campus. However, on most Div I campuses that is not the case where the Students and Taxpayers (at State Schools) flip the bill for quality athletic programs at the expense of other valuable pursuits by students. This is evident in schools whose football programs lose money, which is about 60% of Div IA football programs and 90% in Div IAA football. Why is this important? Schools who are losing money hand over fist in Football related activities cut other programs in the name of Title IX while trying to allocate more funds to the football program in order to enhance its appearance to get better athletes so they can win and get more television revenue. When in reality, those Football programs that make money belong to big conferences and they also have a full complement of male and female sports that also do very well.

The IHSA is a different animal, it has to take the Div III approach. Participation is the most important attribute if you want to grow a sport, the IHSA, etc... The expanded class system works in football, very few games, limit to number of competitors and a time limit. So it will work well in basketball too, but less so in Baseball, Softball, and Volleyball, and even more so in Tennis, Golf, Wrestling, Swimming, XC, and Track were individual competition is greater element than team and time limitations are not necessarily set. Of course it waters down competition too, but it increases participation at Sectional and State competitions for the IHSA which makes the sport economically viable. However, does increasing 25% more participants at the State XC meet mean it will increase participation in that sport in the future? It certainly might when a marginal quality kid makes state, his friend may end up taking up the sport or later on his child may also take up the sport. So yes increasing the classes helps and should help create a more highly competitive environment than currently exists.

I have had 2 concerns with the expansion currently going to take place in XC and what was proposed in track. The first is the scale used to classify schools for enrollment. That has been for the most part fixed, although we will see if expanded classes means less schools co-op'ing with some dropping the sport altogether as XC is more a team sport than track. The second concern was logistics, in XC do we have the daylight and parking for fans to run 6 races with 25% more kids? I don't think detweiler can handle it and if the sport grows and causes a 4 class system, then 2 separate weekends are on the way, because they'll be running from dawn to dusk in November if that happens. In track, it just cannot happen, even the IHSA saw the problems caused by the logistical constraints.

[illini1]

Very well put dbandre. The logistical issues in 3-class track make it a no-brainer of a nightmare. I also agree that Detweiler will be jam packed with 3 classes in there...it should be interesting, at least for a year, to see how it turns out.

Thanks for emphasizing what the NCAA divisions are really for: to put the student back in student-athlete, at least at the D-II and D-III level.

[ricoach]

I'm amused by the continuing opposition to 3 classes. You know what, folks: our opinions don't mean a thing. The basketball coaches thought they had a lot of clout, and guess what, class expansion happened in basketball, too. The IHSA has made their decision, and unless they change their minds again, we'll have 3 classes in 08-09. We as coaches aren't doing right by our athletes by bad-mouthing the situation. The kids will show up to run regardless of what the suits in Bloomington do.

[qcyrunner]

illini1 said:

Very well put dbandre. The logistical issues in 3-class track make it a no-brainer of a nightmare. I also agree that Detweiler will be jam packed with 3 classes in there...it should be interesting, at least for a year, to see how it turns out.

Thanks for emphasizing what the NCAA divisions are really for: to put the student back in student-athlete, at least at the D-II and D-III level.

Detweiller is packed with two classes. My guess is a lot of the Class A and AA schools/fanswill vanish once the ones they were cheering for are finished. Only us hardcores will stick around for all three races. We have three classes, they will work just fine and we won't run out of daylight. If we do for awards purposes, adjustments will be made for the following year. NCAA/IHSA - apples and oranges. I'm looking forward to starting the season next week. good luck everyone.

[dbandre]

Awards/Cooldown for A when AA is Running and AAA is warming up! All 3 classes will be at Detweiler at the same time. There is no way around this issue.

[qcyrunner]

And the ones who could care a less about the next races will be exitting. Three classes was the best thing to come about since the multiplier! I love it!

[anthonyj]

As a track and field fan I don't like the expansion, but since they're going to do it I think the best way to get through the prelims would be to have one class come down a day early and run their prelims on Thursday evening. I saw the set-up that is planned and the way things will be set up I think that Class AAA would be at a terrible disadvantage because their prelims wouldn't end until late Friday evening. They would then have to come back and compete Saturday. I think the distance runners in AAA would really be affected. I also think that they should start the finals an hour early so that they can try to get finished around the same time.