2007 Regional/Sectional assignments up today!!

[cclrunner07]

www.ihsa.org

They should be up later today. We can then see how the madness of three classes is sorted out. Should be interesting. ;D

[sparky791]

My guess is later today. There is bound to be controversy and if I am Mr. McGraw I release them on my way out the door on the way home. Give everyone the weekend to cool off if need be.

[ROCK]

Girls
www.ihsa.org/activity/ccg/2007-08/3assign.htm

Boys
www.ihsa.org/activity/ccb/2007-08/3assign.htm

[historian]

If you are curious - I believe the AAA Sectional hosted by Normal West is scheduled to be run at Detweiler along with the AA Sectional.

[lwcxc]

historian said:

If you are curious - I believe the AAA Sectional hosted by Normal West is scheduled to be run at Detweiler along with the AA Sectional.

Actually, word is that the Normal (AAA) and Peoria Notre Dame (AA) sectionals will be hosted at Illinois Central College in East Peoria. Isn't there a rule that you can't run the same course twice in the state series (which we would all be doing if it was at Detweiler back to back weeks)?

[historian]

I sure hope not - the ICC course never has been a good choice for a major meet like a AAA sectional. Way too many sharp curves. The course itself is not a fair test for the runners.

[lwcxc]

historian said:

I sure hope not - the ICC course never has been a good choice for a major meet like a AAA sectional. Way too many sharp curves. The course itself is not a fair test for the runners.

Hasn't that been the East Peoria sectional course a few times? I seem to remember my brother on Freeport running there some years ago.

[historian]

Yes - the ICC course has been the East Peoria Sectional course, and in my opinion it has never been a particularly good choice. Sterling was a lot better course for the Sectional a few years back. But you can't choose who hosts based solely on the course - they have to want to host the meet. Nothing against the hosts - they ran a fine meet. Just the course is lacking.

[dgndad]

What is the basis for picking the pairings? 11 of the top 15* (plus 4 mentions) are in the Schaumburg Regional! What is fair about this? Is this an improvement?



*Week #1 2007 Class AAA Boys' Poll, September 3rd - Week #1

[ROCK]

dgndad said:

What is the basis for picking the pairings? 11 of the top 15* (plus 4 mentions) are in the Schaumburg Regional! What is fair about this? Is this an improvement?



*Week #1 2007 Class AAA Boys' Poll, September 3rd - Week #1

The IHSA has a geographical representation policy.

[crazyrunner1215]

Every year I hear the same argument. "The sectionals need to be balanced." The IHSA doesn't have time to figure out what teams might be at the top in a particular year. It would be completely ridiculous to realign everything every year. It isn't the IHSA's fault that alot of good teams come from the same geographic region. Get over it. Run hard and that's all you can do. It is inevitable that there will always be some good teams sitting at home.

[alsoran]

It seems to me if the IHSA really does care about the sport (which I really trust they do) that it might consider ways to improve the assignments to balance the loads a little better. As it stands currently it appears that 17 of the top 25 teams in AAA in the state are assigned to the Schaumburg Sectional. That indicates that over half of the best teams in the state are not going to have an opportunity to compete. Of course, year to year some programs will be better in other areas of the state although I doubt that much if you look at history.

I don't see why the IHSA couldn't seed or balance these assignments part way through the season so that more of the better teams would have a chance to compete. They could have a tentative assignment (like as the assignments stand now for instance) and adjust some of the top teams later in the season.
You talk about the IHSA's geographic assignment policy (crazyrunner1215) but if you look at the assignments as they stand for this season and you will find Chicago area teams in all four of the sectionals. If that isn't breaking policy than this wouldn't either. I would trust that this same committee that currently decides these assignments now are also knowledgeable about this sport as well so they should be able to make reasonable adjustments to the assignments later in the season fairly quickly. I'm sure that they would still have complaints from some but I got to believe that it would be a better than it stands now.

It seems that the IHSA goes through somewhat of this same process with football with all 8 classes. Why can't they make an attempt like that with Cross Country so you don't have sectionals with 17/25 top teams in the state and others with just a couple?

[crazyrunner1215]

I honestly don't see how you could possibly say that these assignments aren't geographical. The IHSA did the best job they could to get teams as close together as possible. I know some teams will have to travel a bit for sectionals. But would it really make sense to have some suburban teams travel to Central Illinois for a sectional? My bet is most ADs would not be happy about that.

[xcrnr2]

Is it unfair that the western suburban schools are in the same sectional? ....... No! Why should they split the western suburban schools? A regional is after all a regional. (from the same region). Unfourtanately if you look at the 3 A schools most are from the western or northwestern suburbs so they must compete against each other. thats the bottom line! There is no reason for a western suburban school to go to a southern regional/sectional (Like they have done with the naperville schools the last 6 years) Now in terms of numbers I do think they should add another sectional for the 3A schools. What would it really add (another 5 teams and 7 individuals) the course could definitely handle that.

[alowe007]

yeah well i just kissed my state hopes goodbye when i saw i was in the schuamberg

and the sad thing is could prob get out of any other

[crazyrunner1215]

Ok here are some numbers that some people have yet to consider. According to the IHSA website, there are 756 member schools. In the 3 class system there are:

A-375 Schools-makes up about 50%
AA-190 Schools-25%
AAA-189 Schools-25%

Now not all schools have cross country and more of the class A schools have teams with just individuals, which is why there are a larger number of schools listed as A. However AA and AAA have about a 10% chance of qualifying for the state meet. The argument to add more teams does not hold water according to the numbers. And the IHSA did increase the number of competing teams. There are now 60 teams and 84 individuals in the 3 class system, whereas there were 55 teams and 77 individuals in the 2 class system. Seems like there are more opportunities.

The only reason there is a petition for the increase in teams is because schools are upset about their sectional placement. Well, sorry powerhouses, this is just the way it is. And there is a reason they call regionals, sectionals, and state the "state series." You have to work to get to state, it won't be handed to you. I would bet that even if it were still 2 classes we would hear the same complaints. I have heard it before. Some sectionals have always had weaker teams than others. My advice to the big schools who feel they got cheated. Stop worrying about what sectional you are in. Just run and have fun.

[xcnccben]

crazyrunner1215 said:

Just run and have fun.

The key to that whole post right here, imo! I think sometimes we forget why we do what we do!

[alsoran]

Well, possibly with the exception of some of the Normal Sectional the teams are assigned to the nearest sectional site. You probably know better since you seemed to have gone to great lengths to defend the geographic issue. That's great for all the AD's that are more concerned about their transportaion budgets than their atheletes competing at state which I don't believe is the case. However, I bet that the coaches of most of those teams assigned to Schaumburg would gladly find a way to pay for the extra gas to go to one of the other sectionals. Three of the sectionals are in the Chicago area and are pretty close to one another (Skokie, Schaumburg and Palatine). Basically they are within about 15 miles of each other. My point is if you are truly interested in the sport shouldn't the best teams be the ones with a shot at going? How can you honestly say that by excluding half if not more of the best teams & atheletes that it makes Illinois' State meet better? I don't believe that saving some teams gas at the expense of not bringing many the best runners to state is worth it.

[xcnccben]

The best argument I have read was to base the sectional assignments around the 3rd or 4th week of the season based on rankings. I don't know if they could base these rankings off of IPTTs simply because it is really isn't affiliated with the IHSA.

The IHSA would have to do their own rankings, and for those of us that know anything about the state officials, does this really sound like something they would do?

Unless there is an EASY way for state officials to do so (meaning they probably won't do so unless it is easy and doesn't require a ton of manpower/hours), I don't think there is a way for them to base this solely on rankings. Therefore, keeping the Regional/Sectional/State sequence is quick and easy for them right now.

Every year there are teams on the outside looking in - case in point the St. Charles AA sectional last year on both sides.. teams like Minooka that were studly were what, 12th? Marmion was 9th! I bet even if there were an easy way of ranking/seeding, a bunch of teams that either had slow starts or injuries early would be complaining that the "system is unfair because of the seeding."

Think about this: The 2007 Chicago AA sectional would have been a lot tougher in 2006 than it is in 2007; conversely, the Belvidere Sectional is looking like the monster sectional in AA this year, but probably would not have been as tough last year comparatively. I think in the end, everything averages out.

This argument reminds me of the NFL - For example, the AFC is by far the better conference, with more talented teams than the NFC, but guess what? Only one of these AFC teams get to play in the Super Bowl!

You have to play up to YOUR competition, and yeah, regionally the western burbs are ripe with awesome teams! One of the state's greatest strengths in terms of running sports is also its weakness.

Like many other sports and their post-season systems, I think we are going to just have to live with the imperfection.

[alsoran]

If Cross Country in Illinois truly is all about running for the fun of it, then we really shouldn't time runners. The teams should just get together and go out and enjoy a run without caring about who is better and who is not. They should share ideas and encourage one another, share tips, discuss ways that they have gotten over injuries, etc... That would be great, but that would be more like a club rather than a sport. A sport implies competitiveness.

I believe the IHSA intends that all of its recognized sports as being competitive. I'm not saying that the sport shouldn't include all of those qualities listed above (less the non-competitiveness part) but the idea is that the teams and athletes do try and see who is the best. I would believe that it would be the goal of the IHSA to give the best teams regardless of where they are located geographically the chance to compete.

I'm sorry if I've missed the point of what the meaning of what a competitive sport is and/or the reason why we have the regionals, sectionals and state meets.

I also hope that crazyrunner1215 is not affiliated with the IHSA as it seems this person doesn't care about the inequity of how the talent of the state athletes is spread amongst the various sectionals. She or he appears to be completely callous about the issue.

[historian]

I posted this same thought in another thread, but am adding it here as well.

Recognize the IHSA never seeds any sport on a state wide basis. The Chicago Public League Basketball teams and the surburban football powerhouses have raised this issue for years. The best 8 teams are never in Peoria come March for the BB finals, or in Champaign for th efootball championships. (FYI - anybody want to be in the same track sectional as East St Louis and Springfield Lanphier this spring ?)

State has never been about all the best teams advancing - it has been about everyone having their shot. For some teams, it is a lot tougher shot - no question about that. But, across all sports and all years, it is a reasonable systenm. Sometimes it favors a school / sport, sometimes it doesn't.

[runningwild3]

Does anyone know where the Sherrard Regional is being held? Hopefully not at the school. The last time we were there it was like running in a cornfield.

[quincy101]

how come everyone has so many doubts about the normal sectional lincoln way east adn nequa are in it and there are some pretty good teams also in there that deserve to compete at state

[northside]

The truth is in the numbers. If you go to the IHSA regional & sectional assignments you will find 135 full teams in class A, 146 in class 2A and I beleive 165 in AAA. For AAA that's a little over 37% of the CC teams. The numbers show that if you are a AAA team, you will definitely have a more difficult time making it to Peoria.

[ccaddict]

Great comments! It is so obviously wrong to have 9 of the top 13 and 17 of the top 25 teams in the same sectional. Why not just have the state meet at Schaumburg this year! A bigger problem of this is how many individuals are not going to go to the state meet because they were in sectional with 80% of the top runners. The state meet on the individual side will be a joke this year. Boys from the other 3 sectionals will be coming in 25th place but their times will be 2-3 minutes behind the leaders, while the better runners in the state are at home. Who will get the college scholarships?How can this be right? In track, if you make the qualifying time you go to state, not so in cross country. This is not about the change to the three class system, this is all about putting most of the good teams in one sectional and giving a windfall to all the other teams that are going somewhere else. I bet Palatine and Hersey are happy they get a free ride to state by being a few miles north of everyone else. I hope they realize quickly what a mistake this was and fix it next year.

[runningonempty]

The best of the best will still be at the meet.
As far as scholarships, no college offers scholarships on just the results of the state meet. Most are give out as the results of the runners track season.
Life is not fair folks, live with it.

[alowe007]

ok but whats crap is a guy who could get 6th or 7th at state won't even be there since the top 5 will be coming out of schaumburg

[lwcxc]

alowe007 said:

ok but whats crap is a guy who could get 6th or 7th at state won't even be there since the top 5 will be coming out of schaumburg

I know you're probably exaggerating to make a point, but still...someone who can't make it out of the Schaumburg sectional is SO GOOD that he would be able (if life was fair) to beat most of Nequa Valley, the trio from Lincoln-Way East, Smoody, Havel and Wisser from Hersey, etc. to place in the top ten?

Yes, there are a lot of people who aren't going to qualify who are pretty darn good, but let's not go nuts with the "Schaumburg Sectional = Real State Meet" argument. There are teams outside of that sectional who are running exceptionally well, and those teams (Nequa, Lincoln-Way East, Sandburg, etc.) are going to do just fine at state.

[crazyrunner1215]

Historian had a good point. Every sport has this issue. The reason there is not seeding statewide is because schools don't compete against every other school in the state. So that would leave it up to subjective rankings. This is why there are regionals and sectionals. Take wrestling for example, this past year Glenbard North and Lombard Montini were both teams that had a legitimate shot at the title, however, they had to face each other at the sectional. I honestly believe that those who are worrying about where they are placed in a sectional are wasting time and energy. If these people put as much time into training as they do whining and complaining, they would beat the better teams in their sectional. Sorry that it seems unfair, but no matter what there will be a 6th or 7th place team that is very deserving of competing at the state meet. But honestly with 5 teams qualifying from a sectional, you can bet that this won't affect who is deserving of a trophy. And by the way, I am not affiliated with the IHSA. I am a fan of the sport and I respect it, however I just believe that things could be worse and this in no way affects the integrity of the sport.

[happyranker]

easy regionals this year in AAA except the Rolling Meadows which is gonna be a close three way battle between hersey, palatine and rolling meadows. i see rolling meadows coming up big with the home field advantage