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Post by 800man on Oct 11, 2007 19:34:35 GMT -5
Rock Island Alleman drops from 2nd to 6th overall and Springfield jumps from 5th to 2nd.
Have wondered about Rock Island's high ranking all year, they have finally moved down to being 4th in their sectional, wow.
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Post by oldskool on Oct 11, 2007 21:32:31 GMT -5
I've resigned myself to the fact that AA rankings are going to be crap. Thought they'd improve and smooth themselves out, but that's just not the case. Oh well, rankings have no real value when all is said and done. Just my own 2 cents.
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Post by qcyrunner on Oct 11, 2007 22:31:47 GMT -5
I've resigned myself to the fact that AA rankings are going to be crap. Thought they'd improve and smooth themselves out, but that's just not the case. Oh well, rankings have no real value when all is said and done. Just my own 2 cents. If you don't like em, don't read em. Your second to last sentence says it all. It's just something fun to read and to add a little excitement each week when checking to see if your favorite team gets recognized. It all counts next Saturday. Nobody really has a guage on AA just yet. The post season will be fun as we see how it all plays out. Overall the rankings will become more accurate as the teams once shadowed by AAA rise to the top.
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Post by midwestrun09xc on Oct 11, 2007 22:44:29 GMT -5
You might not wanna be so biased. Some of the rankings are very fair.
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Post by bnhsdad on Oct 12, 2007 6:44:36 GMT -5
Rankings are nothing more than a somewhat subjective gauge of where a person or team is at at a given point in time. The "precision" of the rankings exceeds the "accuracy". But, that is the nature of mid-season rankings. It is a great way to generate dialogue and can provide motivation for teams and individuals specially if they see that they are ranked close to someone else. Our team has enough depth on it and our coach has mixed up the varsity line-up enough that most outsiders would have a very hard time trying to "assign" names to our #2, #3, #4, etc. runners much less try to accurately determine how that team is going to fare in the important meets coming up. Being new to high school level XC, as my son is a freshman, I was surprised that many teams in our area did not "race" at many of the races that have been held. These included the better teams in our area (Rockford). So... to boil this all down; it is interesting to read the rankings and get excited when our "first year team" makes the top ten but the finish line will be the true judge on race day.
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Post by moocher on Oct 12, 2007 7:23:23 GMT -5
Are the rankings posted? I still have week 5 when I bring them up?
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Post by oldskool on Oct 12, 2007 7:44:40 GMT -5
I wouldn't consider them to be "mid-season" at this point with the state series beginning in a week. Perhaps I was a bit harsh with my language, so I apologize for that, but not the sentiment.
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Post by centralillinoisrun on Oct 12, 2007 8:15:15 GMT -5
I don't understand how Delavan High isn't yet a top 10 school in the state. I am still wanting to see what they have run for a full 3 mile, but they do have a nice group of 4 runner maybe the best in AA. Nelson should be one of the top 5 runners in the state. Does anyone have any insight to where they will stack up time wise on Detweiller? I see them running with Metamora and Normal U high for the Peoria Notre Dame sectional title.
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Post by 800man on Oct 12, 2007 8:33:29 GMT -5
Rankings are nothing more than a somewhat subjective gauge of where a person or team is at at a given point in time. The "precision" of the rankings exceeds the "accuracy". But, that is the nature of mid-season rankings. It is a great way to generate dialogue and can provide motivation for teams and individuals specially if they see that they are ranked close to someone else. Our team has enough depth on it and our coach has mixed up the varsity line-up enough that most outsiders would have a very hard time trying to "assign" names to our #2, #3, #4, etc. runners much less try to accurately determine how that team is going to fare in the important meets coming up. Being new to high school level XC, as my son is a freshman, I was surprised that many teams in our area did not "race" at many of the races that have been held. These included the better teams in our area (Rockford). So... to boil this all down; it is interesting to read the rankings and get excited when our "first year team" makes the top ten but the finish line will be the true judge on race day. Very well put. For many reasons coaches decide to sit runners, whether it be for injury or scheduling. I have gone to several meets to see what I thought was going to be a battle between really good teams to find they run their jv squad or don't run their top 3 or 4. At this point everything is relative and a general team profile can be developed because they have all had to do some racing. As far as Belvidere North, you're right, their line up has changed and there are several freshman who will be running in the state series this year, but it is known what the front runner ( AJ Gedwell ) runs and that there are 5-8 guys within 35 seconds of him.
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Post by xcrunner15 on Oct 12, 2007 8:37:46 GMT -5
how do you figure nelson is top five in the state??? no offense, but whats the fastest time hes run this year. Im pretty sure the top five right now is
1.Nick Holmes-14:24- peoria notre dame though ,so closer to 14:40 accurately 2.Derrick Campbell-15:10 (BUT hasnt run peoria since early september, has beaten Hird head to head twice, and sterlings conversion was close to 20 seconds which puts him around 14:50) 3.Tim Hird-14:53 4.Blake Brooks-14:56 5.tie between Colin Mickow and Kevin Forde- Forde went 15:05 at Detwiler, although it wa peoria notre dame so 15:20 ish conversion, and Mickow has gone 15:10 at Detwiler, so Id say their pretty even.
Now I dont know much about Kody Nelson besides that he was one of the top A runners last year, and I havent heard much about him, but Im pretty sure i would have seen somewhere if he had run sub 15:15 this year
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Post by xcrunner15 on Oct 12, 2007 8:49:34 GMT -5
also, id say the rankings are pretty accurate right now, according to the ones i made a couple weeks ago, its pretty much the same: IPPT: 1Sycamore 2 Springfield 3 Crystal Lake Central 4 Yorkville 5 Metamora 6 Rock Island Alleman 7 Springfield Sacred Heart-Griffin 8 Belvidere North 9 Chatham-Glenwood 10 Normal University
compared to mine:
1 Sycamore 2 Springfield 3 Yorkville 4 Rock Island Alleman 5 Crystal Lake Central 6 Metamora 7 Limestone 8 Normal Uhigh 9 Belvidere North 10 Sacred Heart Griffin
Pretty similar plus, in mine i only went by times, and Chatham had not run all their guys in a fast race so far, thats why they werent on the top ten. There is a couple things i disagree with though, metamora, i dont think is a top 5 school yet, Allemans beat them twice head to head, so i think going head to head works sometimes becuase a runner could go 14:50 and have a faster time then someone: ex. Hird and Brooks have faster times than Campbell but hes won the head to head. Otherwise their pretty straight rankings. This week has also screwed things up. Idk about you guys, but I dont believe Springfield should be number 2. Yes, they have the combined times of their guys to be great, but looking at the last couple meets, A)no more then 4 of the top 7 have run well at the same meet, and especially, B)they may have been the top AA school at metamora, but their front runners were pretty far back, and I dont think they justified their number two rankings
but its right, rankings are rankings good luck to all with their confrerences this weekend
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Post by oldskool on Oct 12, 2007 8:58:50 GMT -5
I guess you read my mind centralillinoisrun, because Delavan is my prime example for why these rankings leave much to be desired. They've beaten everyone in the ND sectional they've run against (they haven't competed against Limestone or Metamora yet), and just put their top four runners at or under 15:46 at Amboy, which is 2.9 but pretty hilly. Their 5 man is always the wildcard, but he ran 16:46 and ran each successive mile faster than the next one in that race. They were on Winnebago's heels and wasted Elmwood/Brimfield, last year's A team champion by just over 50 points. I know acccoachk's team was there, maybe he could back me up (not to bring you into this) They've kept that front four in tact at most races, but Nelson ran 15:18 at state last year and was the only A runner to run his last mile under 5 mins. I'm extremely confident he is at that fitness but would put money down he could run 15 flat for certain. Maybe top 5 in AA is a stretch, but top ten is a safe bet. Now, last week (before Amboy) they were ranked 8th in the ND sectional. After that invite they dropped completely from the top-10!! I submit that they could have won or placed second at the Metamora Invite with the same effort, as I ran on both courses while in HS and Metamora's course is much faster than Amboy. If Delavan is being overlooked, who can believe they are the only team being ignored? They have won invitationals and placed second at SJO by 1 point to a great (albeit healthy) Monticello team. Yes, I realize they compete against A teams mostly (that's another topic) but so do many other ranked AA teams.
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Post by sparky791 on Oct 12, 2007 9:04:50 GMT -5
OLDSKOOL
I agree with everything you have said except for Metamora being faster than Amboy. Delavan is getting the shaft, but no way Metamora is faster.
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Post by centralillinoisrun on Oct 12, 2007 9:12:36 GMT -5
I too don't think Metamora is faster. I have ran on both course Amboy more tham Metamora. I always ran much faster at Amboy and earlier in the year. Delavan has a rich history and would love to see them do well. No one is going to have it easy the last two weeks of the season. Some of the schools will race a conferenc meet this week to start their state series off a week ealier than some others. That could cost some teams come 11-3.
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Post by dbandre on Oct 12, 2007 9:14:53 GMT -5
I guess you read my mind centralillinoisrun, because Delavan is my prime example for why these rankings leave much to be desired. They've beaten everyone in the ND sectional they've run against (they haven't competed against Limestone or Metamora yet), and just put their top four runners at or under 15:46 at Amboy, which is 2.9 but pretty hilly. Their 5 man is always the wildcard, but he ran 16:46 and ran each successive mile faster than the next one in that race. They were on Winnebago's heels and wasted Elmwood/Brimfield, last year's A team champion by just over 50 points. I know acccoachk's team was there, maybe he could back me up (not to bring you into this) They've kept that front four in tact at most races, but Nelson ran 15:18 at state last year and was the only A runner to run his last mile under 5 mins. I'm extremely confident he is at that fitness but would put money down he could run 15 flat for certain. Maybe top 5 in AA is a stretch, but top ten is a safe bet. Now, last week (before Amboy) they were ranked 8th in the ND sectional. After that invite they dropped completely from the top-10!! I submit that they could have won or placed second at the Metamora Invite with the same effort, as I ran on both courses while in HS and Metamora's course is much faster than Amboy. If Delavan is being overlooked, who can believe they are the only team being ignored? They have won invitationals and placed second at SJO by 1 point to a great (albeit healthy) Monticello team. Yes, I realize they compete against A teams mostly (that's another topic) but so do many other ranked AA teams. Delavan is the most dangerous team come state. Right now, I don't think Limestone or Metamora can beat them which each team running it's best race.
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Post by oldskool on Oct 12, 2007 9:30:38 GMT -5
My perception might be a bit skewed, its been a number of years since I ran in HS and I ran pretty well at Metamora that time I too think they can give Metamora and Limstone a run for their money. Limestone's saving grace is having the best runner in the state, and I think Nelson is just as good as McMorrow right now (sitting out a home invite your senior year for injury is never a positive thing). I'm sure Delavan's coach and team would prefer to run under the radar, so Im not helping them out any. I hope they prove me right in the coming weeks.
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Post by runningmuth on Oct 12, 2007 9:42:51 GMT -5
Delavan might be one of several teams that are under the radar, but use that as motivation and prove to people come state who you are. I coach Yorkville and it has been great and rewarding for my kids to see that people are noticing all their hard work. We might be overrated or underrated, who really knows, but as a coach this is a tool of motivation and I am very glad that we have these rankings and have a place to talk about this great sport. Rankings are just educated opinions of experienced people involved in the sport. There is no possible way that Rock and all the people who put these rankings out can view or convert every meet or time correctly. Who knows what will happen on Nov. 3 but I do know it will be a great experience for everyone and whoever has the best day will win. In my opinion any of the top ten to twelve teams have a chance to get a trophy and that is exciting. I look forward to seeing all the great talent in AA and can’t wait to see where everyone falls after all the places are counted up. Good luck to everyone and stay healthy.
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Post by centralillinoisrun on Oct 12, 2007 10:58:09 GMT -5
I hope Delavan doesn't settle with racing just Metamora and Limestone as Normal U high is the strongest in the sectional. And as far as Nick Holmes being the fastest runner in the state...?
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Post by bnhsdad on Oct 12, 2007 11:55:43 GMT -5
To add to my previous post; it undoubtedly generates a great deal of debate and discussion once the rankings are posted. I noticed that the discussions almost always include the names and times of individual runners. This makes attending meets where these other teams are running, more interesting as there are now names and expectations associated with "those other teams / runners". At many races, the spectator viewing is limited so the watching of the runners now goes beyond a blurr of "other colored" singlets with an occasional familiar runner, it sparks interest in how those teams or individuals are doing and how our kids stack up against them. So... whether anyone agrees with the rankings or not, having the responses from everyone after they are released provides a lot more information to me and makes the meets more interesting.
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Post by oldskool on Oct 12, 2007 14:59:09 GMT -5
First, I misspoke--I meant Holmes is the fastest in the sectional (although does he still have the fastest IL boy time on Detweiller this year?). Qualifying for state is job #1, but beating good teams along the way is always nice too.
Also, don't let my posts appear that I dislike the rankings. I too think they're quite valuable but anything worth doing is worth doing correctly and I'm simply expressing disappointment with the understanding that this class is new for everyone. Its a crap shoot for certain.
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Post by 800man on Oct 12, 2007 15:44:11 GMT -5
Delavan might be one of several teams that are under the radar, but use that as motivation and prove to people come state who you are. I coach Yorkville and it has been great and rewarding for my kids to see that people are noticing all their hard work. We might be overrated or underrated, who really knows, but as a coach this is a tool of motivation and I am very glad that we have these rankings and have a place to talk about this great sport. Rankings are just educated opinions of experienced people involved in the sport. There is no possible way that Rock and all the people who put these rankings out can view or convert every meet or time correctly. Who knows what will happen on Nov. 3 but I do know it will be a great experience for everyone and whoever has the best day will win. In my opinion any of the top ten to twelve teams have a chance to get a trophy and that is exciting. I look forward to seeing all the great talent in AA and can’t wait to see where everyone falls after all the places are counted up. Good luck to everyone and stay healthy. And to follow up on your Delavan point, understand also that of the current ranked "top 25" only 20 total qualify and that there will be at least 3 probably more like 5 presently unranked teams running in the state finals, so at best, only 15 to 17 of those teams presently ranked will be running in November.
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Post by badkarma96 on Oct 12, 2007 19:05:44 GMT -5
[quote author=xcrunner15 board= This week has also screwed things up. Idk about you guys, but I dont believe Springfield should be number 2. Yes, they have the combined times of their guys to be great, but looking at the last couple meets, A)no more then 4 of the top 7 have run well at the same meet, and especially, B)they may have been the top AA school at metamora, but their front runners were pretty far back, and I dont think they justified their number two rankings
[/quote]
I think Springfield is a pretty solid pick for #2. They've got two guys who have run in the 15:30s and three or four others in the mid to low 16:00s. They placed fairly well at the Central Invite despite the fact that one of their 15:30 guys ran about 17:00 for some reason. (Heat maybe, IDK.)
I doubt any of the teams really care where they're ranked at this point in time as they're probably hoping that their name is one of the last three announced at the AA awards ceremony.
Springfield High, SHG and Glenwood will be running their conference meet tomorrow. It should be a good one.
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Post by midwestrun09xc on Oct 12, 2007 22:59:35 GMT -5
how do you figure nelson is top five in the state??? no offense, but whats the fastest time hes run this year. Im pretty sure the top five right now is 1.Nick Holmes-14:24- peoria notre dame though ,so closer to 14:40 accurately 2.Derrick Campbell-15:10 (BUT hasnt run peoria since early september, has beaten Hird head to head twice, and sterlings conversion was close to 20 seconds which puts him around 14:50) 3.Tim Hird-14:53 4.Blake Brooks-14:56 5.tie between Colin Mickow and Kevin Forde- Forde went 15:05 at Detwiler, although it wa peoria notre dame so 15:20 ish conversion, and Mickow has gone 15:10 at Detwiler, so Id say their pretty even. Now I dont know much about Kody Nelson besides that he was one of the top A runners last year, and I havent heard much about him, but Im pretty sure i would have seen somewhere if he had run sub 15:15 this year Another thing to add about campbell is that he has only had good competition once now, and in that race he lost his shoe. expect much much better from him.
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Post by cyron10k on Oct 13, 2007 2:42:48 GMT -5
Check out what Holmes ran at conference at Detweiller if you're still a doubter.
4:53, 4:47, 4:48 for approximately a 14:30.
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Post by runningblood on Oct 13, 2007 14:42:54 GMT -5
impressive race by metamora boys at the midillini conference race at detweiler park.
1. mcmororw 1540 2. shoopman 1545 3. vanfossen 1550 4. rauh 1557 5. anderson 1611 6. kamm 1618 -38 secs from 1-6 is very solid.
-still missing potential top 5 runner in ryan donnellly
they won the meet with a score of 35. 2nd place was Limestone with 52, then dunlap followed by east peoria.
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Post by 800man on Oct 16, 2007 16:26:52 GMT -5
Check out what Holmes ran at conference at Detweiller if you're still a doubter. 4:53, 4:47, 4:48 for approximately a 14:30. Who was 2nd and how far back were they? It would be nice to see him pushed to find out what he can really run at Detweiler.
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Post by cyron10k on Oct 16, 2007 16:40:32 GMT -5
15:00 for second place. Blake Brooks from Dunlap.
Nick broke the conference record by 22 seconds or so.
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Post by qcyrunner on Oct 16, 2007 23:35:19 GMT -5
I hope Delavan doesn't settle with racing just Metamora and Limestone as Normal U high is the strongest in the sectional. And as far as Nick Holmes being the fastest runner in the state...? ?? Who can hold a candle to him? ? I'd really love to see some names. AAA runners perhaps, but AA I've not seen anyone yet. Pls enlighten me.
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Post by runninxc on Oct 17, 2007 18:52:08 GMT -5
I hope Delavan doesn't settle with racing just Metamora and Limestone as Normal U high is the strongest in the sectional. And as far as Nick Holmes being the fastest runner in the state...? ?? Who can hold a candle to him? ? I'd really love to see some names. AAA runners perhaps, but AA I've not seen anyone yet. Pls enlighten me. derrick campble FTW. i've got a hunch on this one and i'm sticking to it. yeea i know holmes ran a 14:24, but for some reason i dont think it matters.
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Post by cyron10k on Oct 17, 2007 19:24:01 GMT -5
Don't forget Holmes ran a solo 14:29 on Detweiler for the win at conference. Has anybody come within 20 seconds of that time at any course? Thats a serious question.
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