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Post by ajwyman18 on Nov 12, 2007 21:45:37 GMT -5
Who do you think will be the state champion for the 800,1600,3200 for the boys this year in track.
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dacse
Contributor
Posts: 45
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Post by dacse on Nov 13, 2007 10:49:19 GMT -5
Looking at last year's state meet and this year's XC state meet, I would think the following guys would be the favorites:
800- Parker Thompson #1 returner and looking impressive after state XC.
1600- Thompson. Defending champ.
3200- Brian Peterson (2nd last year) and looked strong at Peoria this year. I believe Block was hurt during XC and it may be hard for him to repeat. Also, Feldhake might have a little more motivation after XC and might be the guy to beat.
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Post by xcrunner080 on Nov 13, 2007 16:36:13 GMT -5
what about the girls 400, 800, 1600 and 3200?
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Post by dbandre on Nov 13, 2007 16:56:41 GMT -5
Looking at last year's state meet and this year's XC state meet, I would think the following guys would be the favorites: 800- Parker Thompson #1 returner and looking impressive after state XC. 1600- Thompson. Defending champ. As much as I like Parker, that kind of double will be hard to accomplish with the talent that is in class A.
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Post by dbandre on Nov 13, 2007 16:57:31 GMT -5
what about the girls 400, 800, 1600 and 3200? 800 -> Steph Brown, Olivia Klaus 1600 -> Olivia Klaus, Steph Brown
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dacse
Contributor
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Post by dacse on Nov 14, 2007 8:29:53 GMT -5
Looking at last year's state meet and this year's XC state meet, I would think the following guys would be the favorites: 800- Parker Thompson #1 returner and looking impressive after state XC. 1600- Thompson. Defending champ. As much as I like Parker, that kind of double will be hard to accomplish with the talent that is in class A. There was a lot of talent last year and he almost pulled it off then (1st and a 2nd, I believe). No one is a lock, but he should be considered the favorite based on last year. Also, he dominated XC (not the same as the 800 or 1600), which shows he hasn't been slacking off or anything.
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Post by newpackman on Nov 14, 2007 13:09:17 GMT -5
Yeah I do belive that PT can pull the double. I think the event he could get challenged in is the 800. You never know in the 8, there could be some stud 400 runner decide to step up, or a strong 1600 runner could step down, and there is always that one guy who comes out of the blue to challenge everybody. We'll just have to wait and see.
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Post by circuit on Nov 14, 2007 20:17:10 GMT -5
Zebo Zebe's 51 second 400 and 1:58.16 make him a possible challlenger to Thompson in the 800
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Post by wornflats on Nov 16, 2007 0:37:36 GMT -5
Yeah I do belive that PT can pull the double. I think the event he could get challenged in is the 800. You never know in the 8, there could be some stud 400 runner decide to step up, or a strong 1600 runner could step down, and there is always that one guy who comes out of the blue to challenge everybody. We'll just have to wait and see. It will be a real shock if someone is able to take the 800 and 1600 championships away from Thompson. There are very, very few athletes who have successfully doubled in the 800 and 1600. (It has only been done once since 1912 - Senior Brian Allen of St Joseph in 1993). Parker Thompson came within .15 second of doing it as a sophomore!! Don't forget that Thompson didn't just run 1:56.11/4:20.64 in the finals of the 800/1600. He also ran 1:55.28/4:21.69 in the qualifying heats. It takes a very special athlete to run like that two days in a row. With the strength and experience Thompson has gained from another year of maturity (including a cross country championship), I don't see anybody beating him.
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Post by illini1 on Nov 16, 2007 17:24:23 GMT -5
Let me just put in my two cents. I think the 1980 Olympics in Moscow provides us with a good case study, just some food for thought.
In the 800, Sebastian Coe was the world recorder holder, with by far the best time in the field. In a race that he should have won by close to 2 full seconds over a world-class field, he made the biggest tactical mistake of his life: He got boxed in and finished second to Steve Ovett.
The 1500 was the exact opposite. Steve Ovett, the world record holder in the 1500 and the mile came into the Games confident, saying that he had a "90% chance of winning" and later claiming that he would break his own by WR by as much as 4 seconds!!! Ovett had won 45 straight 1,500 meter races since May 1977. In the final, however, Ovett let the field sit at a pedestrian speed for the first half and Coe kicked him down in the last 800 to win.
To make a long story short, it's incredibly difficult to win both. It takes a perfect combination of speed, strategy, and (often) luck to win, especially in two races - the 800 and 1600 - where pacing and positioning are so critical.
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benmanion
All-State
"It's not just what you do that matters, it's how you do it"
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Post by benmanion on Nov 16, 2007 17:38:35 GMT -5
I completey agree. I could start of list of guys in Illinois that were the clear favorites in races from the 800 to 3200 that didn't win (and it would be a fairly lengthy list). That is why they line em' up and run the race regardless of how much better on paper one runner is over another. There is a lot of historical data that says that it is very very difficult to double. It isn't impossible, but very very difficult. The bottom line is that a lot of things have to go your way for that to happen even if you are the clear favorite. It would be one thing if there wasn't such depth in Class A, but as we have seen the depth and quality of runners in Class A is very good.
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Post by wornflats on Nov 16, 2007 23:24:24 GMT -5
I agree that a certain amount of luck is involved in winning any championship, especially with the depth that currently exists in track throughout Illinois. I find it interesting, however, to see how much the Parker Thompson image has changed over the course of one year.
At this time last year, a lot of people viewed Thompson as a young, inexperienced, upstart who got greedy in the state finals and blew his chances of finishing in the top 5.
One year later he has become this dominant force with a huge target on his back. People are looking around for someone with enough talent to take down the "top guy". That is quite an accomplishment for an athlete still in his junior year of high school.
It will certainly add some excitement to the upcoming track season to see who can mount a serious challenge against Thompson. Quite frankly, I don't expect him to win every race like he did in cross country. I think he will be too interested in peaking for the state finals to worry about losing a few midseason races.
But maybe Thompson will be interested in accomplishing something different during the coming track season. He has already proven what he can do in the 800, 1600, and in cross country. With success at such a great range distances, he surely could knock down a heck of a 3200. Maybe he will decide to go after a state championship in the 3200.
Of course, a lot of people have pulled off the 3200/1600 double in the state finals. However, I don't recall anyone ever doubling in the 3200 and 800. Maybe he should take a shot at that. Heck, why mess around? Why not Just go for the whole show, with a 3200/800/1600 triple?
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Post by qcyrunner on Nov 16, 2007 23:33:52 GMT -5
I think the only person who stood any chance of winning all three is now at some school out east called Duke.............
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benmanion
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"It's not just what you do that matters, it's how you do it"
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Post by benmanion on Nov 17, 2007 6:54:33 GMT -5
I don't think a tripple is possible unless you live in a state like Montana. The talent is way to deep in both classes for that and that is just to many races over 2 days. Now...I would love to see someone try it ;D
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Post by wornflats on Nov 17, 2007 10:27:43 GMT -5
Those of us in the Farmington Sectional are going to experience a letdown this year. Last year we got a very nice advance look at state medalists in several events. Brady Hammon won the 100, 200, and 400. Parker Thompson won the 800 and 1600. Brian Peterson won the 3200. For some reason, Logan Block made the longer trip to Taylor Ridge, or we would have seen Block, Peterson, and Emerick battle it out in the 3200.
It is unlikely that we are going to see that much talent in this sectional for a long time to come (if ever). I will probably miss watching Brady Hammon run the 400 the most. He had a unique ability to go really fast for the first 300 meters and still find a higher gear for the final 100 meters. The way he would rocket away from the competition in that final 100 was amazing.
I haven't seen the sectional assignments for this year. Hopefully we will get to see Thompson, Peterson, and Emerick again this year. I wish Knoxville would get reassigned to Farmington, because I expect Block to come back with a vengence to make up for his cross country problems.
Newspaper reports said that Block never had a serious injury. He just had an inbalance that kept causing inflamation in his knees. As soon as the inbalance was corrected, he was running pain free (and able to make allstate in the finals).
With Blocks return, the state finals of the 3200 should be every bit as exciting as the cross country state finals.
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Post by reptarxc on Nov 17, 2007 15:01:20 GMT -5
if you have run against PT you wouldnt doubt him
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bacon
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Post by bacon on Nov 17, 2007 15:45:59 GMT -5
I don't think a tripple is possible unless you live in a state like Montana. The talent is way to deep in both classes for that and that is just to many races over 2 days. Now...I would love to see someone try it ;D In 1996, Bakken (York) went 1 in the 1600, 1 in the 3200, and 2 in the 800. i forget how close the races were.
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bacon
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Post by bacon on Nov 17, 2007 15:48:34 GMT -5
I find it a minute later:
1 Kyle Leonard (Sr.), New Lenox (Lincoln-Way) 1:52.63 2 Marius Bakken (Sr.), Elmhurst (York) 1:53.78
1 Marius Bakken (Sr.), Elmhurst (York) 4:12.40 2 Edward Riegert (Sr.), Downers Grove (North) 4:14.18
1 Marius Bakken (Sr.), Elmhurst (York) 9:07.34 2 Matt Macievic (Sr.), Chicago (De La Salle) 9:15.88 (J. Torres was 8th)
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benmanion
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"It's not just what you do that matters, it's how you do it"
Posts: 124
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Post by benmanion on Nov 17, 2007 16:24:06 GMT -5
Bakken's performance was outstanding, no doubt. The one observation I would make is that the those times, while very good, would not be good enough to win any of those events this year or even the last couple of years.
Is it truly impossible for someone to win all 3. Well I think the answer is no, but it is very unlikely unless someone comes along and does it during a seriously down year performance wise. I don't know if others agree, but I would consider the year Bakken did what he did a down year (not just the winning times, but even the 2nd place times). Maybe that resonates with some and maybe not, but it sure makes for interesting discussion.
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Post by runfst1 on Nov 17, 2007 19:52:36 GMT -5
if you have run against PT you wouldnt doubt him I have ran aganist PT many times and he is a very good runner. However I think it will be very hard for him to win both the 800 and 1600. I dont think there is any way he could pull of a triple. He is really good but I still think that he is beatable at any event.
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Post by wornflats on Nov 17, 2007 22:07:49 GMT -5
I find it a minute later: 1 Kyle Leonard (Sr.), New Lenox (Lincoln-Way) 1:52.63 2 Marius Bakken (Sr.), Elmhurst (York) 1:53.78 1 Marius Bakken (Sr.), Elmhurst (York) 4:12.40 2 Edward Riegert (Sr.), Downers Grove (North) 4:14.18 1 Marius Bakken (Sr.), Elmhurst (York) 9:07.34 2 Matt Macievic (Sr.), Chicago (De La Salle) 9:15.88 (J. Torres was 8th) I always thought it would be more likely to happen in the small schools rather than the big schools, but Bakken almost pulled it off in AA. The times may not be exceptional, but you have to remember that he ran preliminaries in the 800 and the 1600 the day before. I am certainly impressed with anyone who can run 5 races of that caliber in 2 days.
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Post by dbandre on Nov 18, 2007 0:30:29 GMT -5
At this time last year, a lot of people viewed Thompson as a young, inexperienced, upstart who got greedy in the state finals and blew his chances of finishing in the top 5. One year later he has become this dominant force with a huge target on his back. People are looking around for someone with enough talent to take down the "top guy". That is quite an accomplishment for an athlete still in his junior year of high school. Was PT racing the state xc finals last year to get top 5 or win it? killer instinct is something a runner has to learn along with the will to try to win instead of settling into the pack. That's a very important step for an athlete to take. What Thompson did last year in the State XC finals taught him valuable lessons that a coach can't teach, but a top level has to learn to become successful. It wasn't about greed, but it is as you say inexperience and that's the easiest time to break bad race habits from forming. This next track season, he will be the hunted, instead of the hunter and that's the next lesson he has to learn on his own. This doesn't take away the importance of the coach or parent who can help the athlete keep perspective and continue training them, but the coach and parent can't teach those mental attributes they can only help foster them as the athlete develops and experiences more. Not to mention, a lot of very good coaches took note of what PT did last year and recognized he had the guts to be a winner, not that he was inexperienced and greedy. They knew he was inexperienced and they also know that to become experienced one has to at least try and learn from what happens. Only an ignorant fan would say he was greedy. Greed is the excessive desire to acquire more than one deserve, thus not a fitting description of PT's 2006 State XC finals performance. [/quote]
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Post by reptarxc on Nov 18, 2007 12:24:04 GMT -5
Im friends with Parker. He's a good kid and an extremely hard worker. I don't doubt that he will be able to win the 800 and 1600, but i dont think he'll even attempt the 3200. He hasn't in his forst 2 years (at state) and so i dont think he'll throw a kink into the formula
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Post by wornflats on Nov 18, 2007 19:14:12 GMT -5
At this time last year, a lot of people viewed Thompson as a young, inexperienced, upstart who got greedy in the state finals and blew his chances of finishing in the top 5. One year later he has become this dominant force with a huge target on his back. People are looking around for someone with enough talent to take down the "top guy". That is quite an accomplishment for an athlete still in his junior year of high school. Was PT racing the state xc finals last year to get top 5 or win it? killer instinct is something a runner has to learn along with the will to try to win instead of settling into the pack. That's a very important step for an athlete to take. What Thompson did last year in the State XC finals taught him valuable lessons that a coach can't teach, but a top level has to learn to become successful. It wasn't about greed, but it is as you say inexperience and that's the easiest time to break bad race habits from forming. This next track season, he will be the hunted, instead of the hunter and that's the next lesson he has to learn on his own. This doesn't take away the importance of the coach or parent who can help the athlete keep perspective and continue training them, but the coach and parent can't teach those mental attributes they can only help foster them as the athlete develops and experiences more. Not to mention, a lot of very good coaches took note of what PT did last year and recognized he had the guts to be a winner, not that he was inexperienced and greedy. They knew he was inexperienced and they also know that to become experienced one has to at least try and learn from what happens. Only an ignorant fan would say he was greedy. Greed is the excessive desire to acquire more than one deserve, thus not a fitting description of PT's 2006 State XC finals performance. [/quote] This seems to have touched a sensitive spot with you. I tend to agree with the majority of your points. However, there are also issues of being realistic, disciplined and patient when it comes to developing a cross country career. Parker acknowledged in our local paper that he probably wasn't ready to be taking a shot at Feldhake last year. Once he got into the heat of competition, however, he just decided to go for it. You can call it inexperience, or you can call it a championship spirit, or you can call it greed. Whatever the case, he tried to do something that he was not ready to do and paid the price for it. There were any number of runners who could have stayed with Feldhake through the triangle last year, but they had the wisdom and self-disclipline to run the race that 3 months of intense training told them they should run. I hardly think that Thompson's impulsive, undisciplined attempt to stay with Feldhake somehow makes him more deserving of being a champion. Quite frankly, I have been one of Thompson's biggest supporters since I recognized his great talent at the Amboy Iinvitational in 2006. Immediately, after that race I predicted to anyone who would listen that he was going to be a state champion. I disagree that a great many coaches were impressed by Thompson's failed attempt to stay with Feldhake last year. I think most of them were extremely impressed with the championship potential they saw at Amboy, and then reminded that he was just an inexperienced sophomore when they saw him in the state finals. P.S. It significantly diminishes one's credibility when he stoops to name-calling (ignorant fan) to embelish his arguments.
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Post by notebook on Nov 18, 2007 23:17:31 GMT -5
Where do you think Tedrick will jump in? I heard he was going to try and put together a killer 4X8 with his team this year, but i've also heard that he will try the 1600 and the 3200. Anybody have an idea as to where he will go?
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Post by illini1 on Nov 18, 2007 23:32:30 GMT -5
I don't think a tripple is possible unless you live in a state like Montana. The talent is way to deep in both classes for that and that is just to many races over 2 days. Now...I would love to see someone try it ;D In 1996, Bakken (York) went 1 in the 1600, 1 in the 3200, and 2 in the 800. i forget how close the races were. Let's not forget that at the time Bakken was essentially a professional runner moonlighting as a high school athlete. In the 1996-97 school year he was arguably the best under-21 runner in Norway, with lots of competition experience on their national junior team. Bakken specifically sought out an exchange program to York so he could train under Joe Newton. Nevertheless, still an absolutely amazing performance for a 17-18 year old kid.
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Post by usedtorunalot on Nov 19, 2007 20:41:20 GMT -5
I think the closest someone has come to the triple was Steve Faley in 1992. In the finals he ran a 1:55 and change anchor on Wheaton St. Francis' 3200 relay state champ team which would have been good enough to win the 800 that year. He then came back to win the mile in a little bit of a slow time at 4:25 and then got 3rd in the 3200. Pretty impressive for having to run semis on Friday and then coming back in that many events on Saturday in ridiculous heat.
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Post by redcreek on Dec 2, 2007 16:05:02 GMT -5
Zebo Zebe's 51 second 400 and 1:58.16 make him a possible challlenger to Thompson in the 800 Zebe ran a 1:59.48 (AAU) the previous year. I know he was disappointed with a 1:58.I6 I Believe he tweaked a hamstring mid season. He ran a 1:58+ the second meet of the year. His 51.11FAT 400 was 10 minutes after running the 800m He should be sub 50 in the 400m and could be tough in the 400m or 800m or both. I agree that Thompson is the man to beat (800- 1600) but kids come out of nowhere all the time. That's the beauty of track and field.
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Post by newpackman on Dec 2, 2007 18:08:40 GMT -5
I gotta watch Zebe alittle last year, and he is a stud. Don't count him out of any race yet. Also as for Thompson, don't forget being number 1 returner don't mean nothing. Kyle Harvey was number one returner in the 16 just two years ago, and he didn't make finals last year. It all comes down to who has the right race at the right day. I wouldn't be surprised to see Parker get beat by somebody who didn't double up and was fresh. Having said all that I'm still takeing PT for the double win. ;D
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Post by stmrunner2009 on Jan 3, 2008 10:17:45 GMT -5
ive gone up against zebo several times and he is one heck of a runner. I would not be surprised to see him win state in the 800.
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