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Post by anthonyj on Sept 9, 2007 15:31:29 GMT -5
Asafa Powell set a new world record in the 100 meters at the grand prix meet in Rieti Italy today running a 9.74.
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Post by oldschool on Sept 9, 2007 16:50:24 GMT -5
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Post by ROCK on Sept 9, 2007 17:03:33 GMT -5
Amazing. It looked like he let up at the end. Wow. Imagine how fast he can go.
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Post by dbandre on Sept 10, 2007 2:12:41 GMT -5
That is the best start/acceleration and transition to maximal velocity I have ever seen. If I were a HS sprinter I would watch that over and over.
For those who want to know what makes you faster in a sprint race. It's all in the start and acceleration (rate of change in speed). He accelerates longer and faster than anyone else in the world and guarantee that how he practices as well almost everyday.
For those inquiring scientific and mathematical minds who wish to know more look up the impulse-momentum theorem and Newton's second law of motion.
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Post by newpackman on Sept 10, 2007 19:16:08 GMT -5
Powell was smoking. To bad he can't ever do that when he's at a big meet. I mean this guy should have taken care of Gay no problem at the world championship.
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Post by trackstud on Sept 12, 2007 20:18:56 GMT -5
i think he'll take him in the olympics..
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Post by tiaharveyfan on Sept 13, 2007 17:47:32 GMT -5
I dont think he will. I think GAY will step it up a couple notches
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Post by dbandre on Sept 13, 2007 19:06:19 GMT -5
Why would you all forget the man with the most promise? Atkins. Gay can manage running the championship heats, and Powell can't. That has been painfully obvious for 4 years now. Then again there are still Walter Dix and Trinton Holliday out there for the US who show as much promise as Atkins.
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Post by newpackman on Sept 13, 2007 19:49:18 GMT -5
Gay is the man, and I'm taking him to win gold next year. He just showed everybody he's the man to beat. Powell is fast, but Gay keeps his cool better then anybody out there right now. He almost always gets a good start.
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Post by hoggin88 on Sept 14, 2007 16:54:01 GMT -5
Ok, can someone please explain to me why track runners (elite or not) will often let up at the end of the race if they know they have it won. What is there problem anyway? Winning the race is one of the goals of track but also the goal is to keep improving yourself and give your best. If Powell would have ran the whole to his best ability maybe the record would be 9.73. And in the 100 meter one-hundredth of a second is a big deal! Now I know this wasn't a finals heat, but come on. Did letting up like he did really save any energy? Plus, I've seen this countless other times in races were finals heats.
...and about gay vs. powell - I would definitely take tyson gay over powell. If tyson would have run in this race I bet he would have won and Powell would have run a 9.8, knowing his choking abilities.
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Post by dbandre on Sept 14, 2007 17:04:49 GMT -5
total relaxation, which is why they maintain the maximum velocity they attained.
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Post by hoggin88 on Sept 14, 2007 17:41:51 GMT -5
Ok you can't tell me that the last 5 meters of that race were run at his maximal velocity. This is a less extreme case of letting up at the end but still, looking at "letting up" in slow motion will show that the athlete is now coasting and landing on his heels instead of the balls of feet during the pawback phase. Landing on your heels will not give you the same push per stride and you DO NOT run as fast. It's particularly evident in his last 3 or 4 strides. Velocity is not held through running on your heels.
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Post by dbandre on Sept 16, 2007 19:06:32 GMT -5
Pawback??? There is no such thing and actively pawing backwards would decelerate a runner. You have been reading too much Dr. Yessis? For starters start here. www.elitetrack.com/articles/weyand.pdfThe faster a runner goes, the stiffer their leg spring is. This requires total relaxation. Speed is not determined by anything else. If his vertical oscillation at the hip doesn't increase he's maintaining speed. That's how he is coasting!!! He's not on his heels either.
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Post by illini1 on Sept 16, 2007 20:46:53 GMT -5
Thank you for bringing a little scientific knowledge into this discussion When I look at the video of Powell, I see the same thing that you do: an absolutely incredible drive phase and transition. It just "looks" effortless because he's that good technically. Now just imagine how fast he'd be if he was as good out of the blocks as a Ben Johnson...and Asafa ain't too shabby at the start as it is. As for the "pawing" erroneously alluded to, I don't see any pawing by Powell at all. I see him dorsiflex the foot, step over the knee, and drive down with full extension directly beneath his hips (i.e. Center of Mass) EVERY single time he takes a stride...which is the ideal outcome. The article points out all we need to know (and already know) about running very, very fast: it's all about applying maximal force to the track while staying as relaxed as possible. And for the record, I think that Lauryn Williams may generate even more power, pound for pound, than Powell...and that Bob Hayes would beat Powell with today's training.
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Post by dbandre on Sept 17, 2007 13:08:47 GMT -5
Thanks Illini.
If Powell learned to run his own race like he does everytime in these sub 9.8s races he would beat Gay or anyone else. His problems occur when he races people as good as he is. The best American 100m sprinters will be at the Olympics. There will be no J-Mee Samuels in the American contingent. Powell has to race against the best of best consistently to get a feel how it is to run those sub 9.8s races with people right next to him at 60m.
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Post by illini1 on Sept 17, 2007 16:39:56 GMT -5
Agreed. Because there certainly wasn't anybody next to him at 60 meters during his world record. Once again...WOW.
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Post by hoggin88 on Sept 17, 2007 17:37:09 GMT -5
Pawback??? There is no such thing and actively pawing backwards would decelerate a runner. You have been reading too much Dr. Yessis? For starters start here. www.elitetrack.com/articles/weyand.pdfThe faster a runner goes, the stiffer their leg spring is. This requires total relaxation. Speed is not determined by anything else. If his vertical oscillation at the hip doesn't increase he's maintaining speed. That's how he is coasting!!! He's not on his heels either. Well thanks for your sarcastic little remark. Real nice. As for the "Pawback???" as you called it - I'm not an idiot, ok? I know that if a runner paws back at the track it will decelerate him. That's not what I'm talking about. Pawback (or whatever term you feel like using) is a term used at some speed clinics I've been to that refers to part of the running motion. It's the phase where your lead leg is completely straight and driving down at the ground, and your foot lands directly below your hip. The actual pawing back occurs in the air, not on the track surface. So don't try to tell me something doesn't exist when you don't even know what I'm talking about. That being said - in Powell's last 4 steps, his foot may be landing in the right spot under the hip, but his foot is most definitely hitting slightly closer to the heel than it should be. Landing closer to the heels puts on the brakes. If you aren't seeing that at all, then I don't know what video you're watching. And about the research article, I know that already! Plus, it does nothing to support your argument because in Powell's race not only does his stride frequency decreased at the end, but so does the force he is applying to the ground - not only because of the reason I already mentioned, but also because particularly in his last two steps he is not bringing his leg up parallel to the ground. If he isn't driving his legs from a parallel position, he is absolutely not getting as much power per stride as he should be. That's a fact. I'm not saying it's blatantly obvious. In both of these areas - the foot and the knee drive - he is close to it but just not quite there. If there would have been a guy next to him running a 9.73, he wouldn't have finished the race that way. And it wouldn't have been "unscientific" of him to have finished it differently either. He would have finished with full force and a lean at the line. So would that have been dillusional because supposedly that is unnecessary? No way.
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Post by dbandre on Sept 17, 2007 18:13:05 GMT -5
I suppose that going to these clinics makes you an expert over myself someone who has spoken at such clinics and studied this for the better part of 2 years. He runs 50m around the curve after the finish, clearly the brakes weren't on. Sprinting is about powering to maximum velocity and holding that momentum to maintain it for as long as possible. His stride is perfect even 3 meters after he crosses the line. Ft=mv (force x time = mass x velocity) impulse-momentum equation, therefore to slow down his foot has to stay in contact with the ground longer, if it does his hips collapse. In this instance it doesn't happen even 3m clear of the finish his foot is landing nearly under his center of gravity and at that speed his foot won't stay in contact with the ground much longer than .05-.06s thus he can't decelerate because the time requirement to do so is not there. BTW, to decelerate the foot has to land farther in front of the center of mass to allow the leg spring to collapse. There is also not much scientific evidence to support the idea of a lean at the finish to produce faster times. Notice that 1st place goes to the lady who didn't lean. osaka2007.iaaf.org/images/photofinish/3653/W_100_f_1.jpg I couldn't wait to stop hearing Carole Lewis talk about Williams lean at the finish and how that got her the victory most likely. I wasn't surprised that Campbell won without the lean, and the non lean of Torri Edwards probably got her 4th over Gevart. I have never taught my runners to lean, because the rotational velocity needed to produce such a lean to carry them across the line faster seemed greater than the linear velocity they were already carrying. There are a ton of myths to sprinting and not a whole lot of fact.
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Post by hoggin88 on Sept 17, 2007 19:08:23 GMT -5
I suppose that going to these clinics makes you an expert over myself someone who has spoken at such clinics and studied this for the better part of 2 years. He runs 50m around the curve after the finish, clearly the brakes weren't on. Sprinting is about powering to maximum velocity and holding that momentum to maintain it for as long as possible. His stride is perfect even 3 meters after he crosses the line. Ft=mv (force x time = mass x velocity) impulse-momentum equation, therefore to slow down his foot has to stay in contact with the ground longer, if it does his hips collapse. In this instance it doesn't happen even 3m clear of the finish his foot is landing nearly under his center of gravity and at that speed his foot won't stay in contact with the ground much longer than .05-.06s thus he can't decelerate because the time requirement to do so is not there. BTW, to decelerate the foot has to land farther in front of the center of mass to allow the leg spring to collapse. There is also not much scientific evidence to support the idea of a lean at the finish to produce faster times. Notice that 1st place goes to the lady who didn't lean. osaka2007.iaaf.org/images/photofinish/3653/W_100_f_1.jpg I couldn't wait to stop hearing Carole Lewis talk about Williams lean at the finish and how that got her the victory most likely. I wasn't surprised that Campbell won without the lean, and the non lean of Torri Edwards probably got her 4th over Gevart. I have never taught my runners to lean, because the rotational velocity needed to produce such a lean to carry them across the line faster seemed greater than the linear velocity they were already carrying. There are a ton of myths to sprinting and not a whole lot of fact. I definitely don't think I'm an expert in the field. I was just defending one aspect that you wrongly attacked. You simply jumped on what I said without knowing what I was talking about first. And the article you posted a link for was beside the point I was making. I know full well that you have had experience at speed clinics and stuff and that I haven't. But man you just sound pretty egotistical sometimes. So I'm not trying to say I know more than you or whatever, I'm just saying you need to stop trying to explain and argue everything you read without knowing what the other person is talking about first. And back to Powell - his legs clearly are not parallel in his last couple of steps. You can't watch that and tell me otherwise. No equation can tell me that that was good form. Not that I'm devaluing your science you're presenting, because I know it is valuable. Also, just because he runs 50m into the curve doesn't say anything about his sprint technique. He was still running fast, but not perfect form. So I think I'm done arguing this because nothing will convince me otherwise on what I am seeing in his form. Also, I didn't mean make this into a "leaning" argument. I don't really know much about that myth or skill or whatever you would call it. And...arguments aside. In the post above where you posted the link to the research article - you said "If his vertical oscillation at the hip doesn't increase he's maintaining speed. " What does that mean? I don't know the exact definition of vertical oscillation at the hip, but did you mean to say "decrease" instead of "increase"? Just wondering.
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Post by dbandre on Sept 17, 2007 19:17:45 GMT -5
Your thinking is too much inline with that of the swing phase. I am looking at the only thing that matters in sprinting and most running events. I am looking at what happens on the ground. What happens during the swing phase rarely alters what is happening on ground, in effect it is what is happening on the ground that determines what happens in the air. You are also using footage that is 30hz, or 30 frames a second. I supposed if you put if through a digital filter pass such as a fourier or butterworth you could surmise if powell's swing leg is parallel, but that is all irrelevant to what is happening on the ground.
Tell me can you tell me if his foot is in contact with the ground for 1 frame only? If it is his ground contact time is under .066s, which would one could come to the conclusion that his linear velocity is not decelerating to the degree which you claim.
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Post by hoggin88 on Sept 17, 2007 19:27:35 GMT -5
The video may not be the best quality, but it's definitely decent enough to determine a knee drive with some accuracy. As for the foot on the ground for one frame...I'm pretty sure that on a youtube or similar type video you can't determine to the thousandth of a second how long his foot is on the ground for. Do you have the high quality video you were talking about?(Unfortunately I don't, so referring to his running in frames isn't helpful to me I guess). Also speed isn't only determined by what's happening on the ground. If Powell would have run the whole race with knee drive like he had at the end, the result would have been a much slower race. Obviously you are going to get more power per stride when your leg is striking from a higher starting point. What happens on the ground is not going to determine whether you are getting that knee drive either.
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Post by dbandre on Sept 17, 2007 19:38:00 GMT -5
Vertical oscillation of the hips, the vertical displacement the hips move up and down during the entire the stride. The faster the runner the less vertical oscillation they display, to slow down that vertical oscillation increases as the ankle dorsiflexes and knee flexes upon impact with the ground. The ability to resist these flexions in hip, knee, and ankle is referred to as leg stiffness. The leg stiffness is what helps sprinters maintain speed and can be referred to as elastic strength. To slow down, the runner's center of gravity must go through greater displacements in the vertical direction or they just let gravity and air resistance do the work for them (powell's case). Gravity will only work when his feet are in contact with the ground, since he's not making himself slow down it takes him longer to do so because of the speed at which he was running. To do this he has to be totally relaxed and focused on his race. This is exactly what he supposed to do.
I would love to see if he had any significant differences between his 10m splits at 60-70 and 90-100m. It was probably the fastest last 10m of a men's 100m race so I doubt it.
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Post by dbandre on Sept 17, 2007 19:40:07 GMT -5
It's not the power of the leg striking the ground, it's the elastic ability of the leg to overcome the leg hitting the ground and returning that energy before it is converted to heat.
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Post by hoggin88 on Sept 17, 2007 19:42:58 GMT -5
I think I understand the oscillation thing then. Although I still don't agree about everything, it's good to see both sides of everything. Thanks for the info.
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Post by rcfan2 on Sept 20, 2007 15:41:34 GMT -5
For those still interested in this topic (and subsequent debate) - here is another link to video of Asafa's record setting race in Rieti, Italy. www.youtube.com/watch?v=V_tp1V3ikbQThis video contains several different perspectives of the heat race (multiple camera angles) and includes video of the finals as well. Roughly 28 seconds into this video - a camera with a "head on" view of the runners records the race. It may be that this camera offers the best view of Asafa and his effort/form as he approaches the finish line.
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Post by anthonyj on Sept 20, 2007 21:08:48 GMT -5
Has anyone heard about Justin Gatlin's appeal?
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Post by anthonyj on Sept 25, 2007 12:48:59 GMT -5
Check out this article. Powell, Gay to avoid showdown 13 September 2007 www.wcsn.com By Dave Ungrady The sprinting paths of Tyson Gay, the world champion in the 100 meters, and Asafa Powell, the world-record holder in the event, will run parallel later this month in Asia. But they will not cross. Gay is scheduled to race in the 100 meters and Powell is slated for the 200 meters at meets in Shanghai, China, on Sept. 28 and in the Yokohama Super Meet in Japan on Sept. 30, according to representatives for both athletes. Powell's agent, Paul Doyle, said this week in a telephone interview that the Jamaican sprinter was initially scheduled to run the 100 meters in the Japanese meet. Organizers from the Super Meet switched Powell to the 200 meters after Gay won the world championship. "We were disappointed," Doyle said. "Asafa false-started in the 100 meters at the meet last year, and we initially offered to run there as a favor to make up for that. They apologized, but accommodated Tyson because he is the world champion." Doyle said negotiations for Powell with directors of the meet in China depended on Gay's preference after he won the world championship. After Gay chose the 100 meters, Powell was offered to run in the 200 meters. Gay's agent, Mark Wetmore, said Wednesday through a spokesperson that discussions for Gay to run in the two meets focused on the 100 meters without Powell. "With Asafa in the race, in a matchup situation, the negotiation is a lot different," he said. Doyle confirmed that the meet directors preferred Gay and Powell not run against each other to avoid paying higher appearance fees for both. "We would not have asked for anything more if they ran against each other," Doyle said. The directors of the meets were unavailable for comment. Gay is scheduled to run a meet in Daegu, South Korea, on Oct. 3. Powell is scheduled to run in the 100 meters in the Van Damme Golden League meet in Brussels on Friday and has committed to run in the Pedros Cup in Poland Sept. 19. He is considering competing in the World Athletics Final in Stuttgart, Germany on Sept. 22-23. Gay has only competed once since winning gold medals in the 100 meters, 200 meters and 4x100 meter relay at the world championship -- in the 4x100 meter relay with a U.S. team at the Zurich Golden League meet on Sept. 7. He has mostly been resting in Arkansas. Bookmark and share this story: Facebook del.icio.us Netscape Digg Contacts MadRunner.com | AthleticRunner.com | Soccer Balls | Buy-Sell-VoIP.com
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Post by anthonyj on Sept 30, 2007 8:24:23 GMT -5
Believe it or not Wallace Spearman beat Tyson Gay in the 100 Meters at this meet. Spearman ran a pr 9.96, Gay came in second at 10.02
Gay & Powell 'kept apart in 100m'
27 September 2007 bbc.co.uk
World 100m champion Tyson Gay and record-holder Asafa Powell claim they are not allowed to face each other at the Golden Grand Prix in China.
Gay competes in the 100m in Shanghai on Friday, while Powell runs in the 200m.
Powell, 24, said: "I wanted to run the 100m but I wasn't allowed to. I don't know why, you should ask my manager."
Gay, 25, added: "Asafa wants to run the 100m, I don't really know what's going on. Maybe someone wants to see the big match-up in Beijing [at the Olympics]."
Gay and Powell have only faced each other once this year, when the American produced a storming finish to win the World Championships in Osaka in 9.85 seconds on 26 August.
Powell, who admitted giving up when he knew he could not win and ended up finishing third, responded by setting a new world 100m record in 9.74 seconds 14 days later in Rieti, Italy.
Powell wants to gain revenge on Gay for defeat last month, but said: "At first when I heard, I kept asking my manager why I was running the 200.
"They know I don't like the 200 because it hurts afterwards. I wanted to run the 100 but they said run the 200, so that's what I have to do."
Powell's manager Paul Doyle said Gay did not want to face Powell so soon after his victory in Osaka.
"When these athletes match up they need to be 100% and I think Tyson is not ready at this stage of the season to race Asafa," said Doyle.
"If I was in his shoes, I wouldn't want to race either - there's very little for him to gain and a lot for him to lose.
"We realise the world wants to see this race. I know Asafa is hungry to race Tyson and make up for his loss in Osaka.
"The only thing I'm not sure about is Tyson's motivation to race Asafa."
Gay said he was "excited" about Powell's new record, set on 9 September, and admitted he coveted the tag of world's fastest man.
"The gold medal is very important to me but right now Asafa Powell is the fastest man that ever walked the earth. That's a great privilege to have," said Gay.
Powell believes the record is his proudest achievement.
"I'd love to have a gold medal but I wouldn't give up my record for anything you could give me - anything else in the world," he said.
Friday's Golden Grand Prix kicks off a mini-Asian tour with many of the world's top athletes also visiting Yokohama in Japan on Sunday and South Korea's Daegu on Wednesday.
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Post by anthonyj on Jan 1, 2008 14:36:59 GMT -5
Justin Gatlin won't be able to run at next year's olympics. Here's the story.
Reports: Gatlin won't be eligible to defend Olympic 100-meter gold ESPN.com news services
Sprinter Justin Gatlin got his doping ban reduced but not by enough to make him eligible to defend his Olympic 100-meter title this year.
Justin Gatlin was facing a ban of up to eight years but reportedly will not compete for the next four.
The 25-year-old sprinter had a potential eight-year ban reduced to four years, retroactive to April 2006, which means he'll still be on the sidelines for the Beijing Olympics in August. He needed the ban reduced to two years to be eligible in time for the Olympic trials next June.
Details of the ban were first reported by The Washington Post. The Associated Press and Reuters also reported the story Tuesday, citing respective sources with knowledge of the decision.
The Post reported two out of the three U.S. arbitrators had said they could not give Gatlin less than a four-year ban because of a previous positive test. A third dissented, the Post reported.
In 2006, Gatlin tested positive for a banned substance for the second time and, under anti-doping rules, was supposed to receive a lifetime suspension.
But because of the special circumstances behind his first positive test -- he was taking medicine to treat attention-deficit disorder -- he reached an agreement with the U.S. Anti-Doping Agency that called for a maximum eight-year ban.
The agreement called for Gatlin not to argue that the second positive test was faulty, but also gave him the right to seek a further reduction through arbitration.
USADA was expected to announce the arbitration decision this week. USADA CEO Travis Tygart did not immediately return messages from AP seeking comment on the decision.
Gatlin's lawyer, John Collins, declined to comment, according to Reuters.
Gatlin received the further reduction because of help he provided USADA in its case against track coach Trevor Graham.
Gatlin reportedly has met with Jeff Novitzky, the lead investigator in the Bay Area Laboratory Co-operative steroid investigation, and made calls, including at least one in Novitzky's presence, to Graham.
Graham faces charges of lying to federal investigators.
Gatlin, who held himself up as a role model for clean competition before his positive test, claims he doesn't know how steroids got into his system before the test in April 2006.
Graham has accused Oregon massage therapist Chris Whetstine of rubbing a steroid cream on Gatlin to trigger the positive test, but Whetstine has repeatedly denied the allegations.
Gatlin's arbitration hearing -- before a three-member panel overseen by the American Arbitration Association -- was held in July and was not open to the public.
It was more like a sentencing hearing than one about the merits of the case, and the result is in line with USADA's longstanding policy of being more lenient with accused and convicted dopers who are willing to help the agency catch others.
While it seemed sure that Gatlin would end up with something less than an eight-year sentence, the magic number was really two years. Under the decision expected to be announced this week, it is still conceivable he could stick around four more years for the London Olympics.
The sentencing means Gatlin will have no immediate chance to regain his world record in the 100 meters. He shared the record of 9.77 seconds with Jamaica's Asafa Powell, though Gatlin had his name removed from that record after his positive test. Since then, Powell has improved on the record, finishing in 9.74 seconds in September.
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off
All-Conference
Posts: 53
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Post by off on Jan 2, 2008 1:05:30 GMT -5
I wish I would have seen this thread when it started...
Only thing i'll point out, even though i'm 4 months late...is that the final stages of the race did show a dramatic drop in speed( I have splits) And that Powell is as good if not better out of the blocks as Ben Johnson.....
R/T 0.137
10m - Don't know what I did with this split 20m - 2.88 30m - 3.79 (0.91) 40m - 4.65 (0.86) 50m - 5.49 (0.84) 60m - 6.32 (0.83 70m - 7.15 (0.83) 80m - 7.98 (0.83 90m - 8.84 (0.86) 100m - 9.74(0.90)
0.85 followed by a 0.87 would have been a more normal, natural progression at that speed from 80-100m, if he had run through the line. So he shut it down as the video showed. I'm sure if he knew how fast he was running he would have run through the line.
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