packman
All-Conference
I have joined xcordie's ihsa revolution
Posts: 58
|
Post by packman on Nov 15, 2006 16:34:01 GMT -5
Who do you think the best individual runner is in recent Illinois years. Please discuss.
|
|
|
Post by acccoachk on Nov 15, 2006 18:28:51 GMT -5
i have 3 diferent answers here; 1st of all Jager is just a phenomenal talent;who will certainly take it up another level in the right college program! jeremy stevens had a great sr.year without alot of push in cc! I think he made a statement by his victory at Mt.Prospect over his Class AA contemporaries in the 3200 in track Matt Withrow of Andrew ranks up there! If we go back a little further;certainly Jorge Torres, Donald Sage,and from the early 90's Tim Broe --East Peoria --all at world class levels now!
|
|
|
Post by LemontXC17 on Nov 15, 2006 18:28:59 GMT -5
those are all a great group of runners but i think what jager showed this year and last track season sets him just above the others. I think havel might be able to be as good and maybe even batter then jager.
|
|
|
Post by acccoachk on Nov 15, 2006 18:39:36 GMT -5
I certainly wouldn't dispute that! Jager is absolutely dangerous at the end of a race, as a 1:51 800, 4:08 1600 guy! Havel has always had a reputation as a great talent, who demonstrated at state that he races with a huge heart!
|
|
|
Post by LemontXC17 on Nov 15, 2006 19:51:21 GMT -5
yea i would have to agree with you on torres and sage they are probally the 2 best runners to come out of illinois so far
|
|
lwlr
Contributor
Posts: 16
|
Post by lwlr on Nov 15, 2006 20:17:09 GMT -5
Withrow
|
|
|
Post by speedylightning on Nov 16, 2006 8:41:30 GMT -5
Jager all the way. i mean when you got girls wearing your face on shirts that says it all.
|
|
|
Post by erunner7 on Nov 16, 2006 9:49:36 GMT -5
If we're talking about best as in when they were in high school I think Torres would have to take the top spot because of his three state titles, but if it came down to him, Sage, and Jager together at the end its a pick 'em between Sage and Jager. I know the stats on Jager and his 800/1600/3200 times but think about what Sage did his senior year. He ran 4:00 at the Prefontaine race against international competition and then his 8:42 3200 at the state track meet. That is still the best race I've ever seen and I've seen alot. He was shoulder to shoulder with Tim Keller at the bell lap and beat him by 14 seconds!!!!! I think his last lap was a 55. Even Jager would have his hands full with that. Then again Jager still has a track season to go....
Now if you're talking high school career and beyond I'd have to say Broe. American record holder for the indoor 3k, 11th at Olympics 5k. I could keep going here if anyone disagrees.
|
|
|
Post by acccoachk on Nov 16, 2006 16:22:17 GMT -5
DOES ANYONE RECALL 1994 WHEN THE CLASS A CHAMP CHRIS BAILEY HAD AN IDENTICAL WINNING TIME TO TIM BROE OF EAST PEORIA, I BELIEVE BOTH RAN 14:51's ON A TERRIBLY SLOW RAIN SOAKED COURSE THAT YEAR? BAILEY WAS ANOTHER INCREDIBLE TALENT WHO PROVED HIMSELF WELL AGAINST ANYBODY;YET NEVER HAD A FAST COURSE DOWN THERE!
|
|
|
Post by erunner7 on Nov 16, 2006 17:08:10 GMT -5
Actually I do remember that, in fact I ran in that race. You're right they both ran 14:52 on a miserable day though I do think Broe practically jogged the final hill. He had about a 20 second lead and only won by 7 seconds. More to your point though Bailey also ran the identical time (9:17) for the 3200 as Broe at state and that was also a rainy, crappy day. Although I don't put Bailey in the class as Torres, Sage, and Broe... he definetly was a stud. Personally, the best kid I ever ran against.
|
|
|
Post by xcrunner322 on Nov 17, 2006 21:02:18 GMT -5
i think havel will be just as good if not better than any of them.. but torres is definately the best so far with his 3 titles. but havel was awesome in junior high winning state in 10:11 as an 8th grader which is amazing and then coming into highschool running 14:56 14:26, and then an outstanding 14:12 only finishing 5 seconds behind jager who has been talked about being so awesome and everything and that he is with great stamina and a great kick at the end but havel will definately beat 14:07 next year unless the course is muddy or wet he is a great runner.
|
|
|
Post by xcrunner322 on Nov 17, 2006 21:04:20 GMT -5
10:15 in 8th grade sorry
|
|
packman
All-Conference
I have joined xcordie's ihsa revolution
Posts: 58
|
Post by packman on Nov 18, 2006 20:29:30 GMT -5
I left out Broe, Torres, Sage, and Winthrow because I said recent years bye that I mean within the last four years or so (sorry I'm a senior). If you go all time Torres is the man in high school. Broe is the best out of high school, and Winthrow will be the one to watch.
|
|
|
Post by threet on Nov 18, 2006 21:19:40 GMT -5
ALL Time Illinois HS Cross Country #1 Craig Virgin Seen them all run and there was none better. #2 Tom Graves #3 Withrow #4 Torres, Sage, Merrick, Spivey, Broe (have to think a little more) Havel will be in the mix after next year IMO
Jager out of the top 8 now, knew not to rate till after the season was over!!!
|
|
lwlr
Contributor
Posts: 16
|
Post by lwlr on Nov 25, 2006 18:38:48 GMT -5
I've got to say it again, in recent years, Withrow
|
|
|
Post by runningonempty on Nov 25, 2006 20:14:09 GMT -5
I think Stevens gave Withrow a run for his money. If Stevens had gone to a Chicago area school he would have recieved much more credit just because of the media.
|
|
|
Post by runningdolphin on Nov 25, 2006 23:42:11 GMT -5
Unless I am mistaken Withrow is the only one with a national Championship. Also I hate to say it, he doesn't choke.
|
|
|
Post by speedylightning on Nov 30, 2006 9:28:00 GMT -5
i still say jager because although he had one bad race we all know he will have fast races and he is not the kind of person that gives up after one lost. sure he didnt get to run nationals but this kid has the potential of breaking the 4 minutes in a mile, which if he does then he can say he did it in highschool. so all these great runners like withrow, torres, broe, stevens etc ran good in high school but i dont recall any of them breaking four. once jager breaks four he will be the best. state champ in cross, breaking four in the mile will make him number one.
|
|
|
Post by oldschool on Nov 30, 2006 9:37:14 GMT -5
...(many) ran good in high school but i dont recall any of them breaking four. once jager breaks four he will be the best. state champ in cross, breaking four in the mile will make him number one. Donald Sage - 1999 XC champion, 2000 T&F 3:58...
|
|
|
Post by oldschool on Nov 30, 2006 9:51:14 GMT -5
Detweiller is perhaps the great equalizer in the discussion since virtually everyone who is in this mix has run it at least 2x's per year (usually at least one of Peoria's 3 large invites together with state). Most have had 8 or more shots at it over their 4 year careers thereby limiting weather variations somewhat. What we find on the IHSA published list of All-Time Detweiller bests (and I'm pretty sure that not all the times that could have been included have been reported or published, but...) going into this season is:
13:50.6, Craig Virgin, Lebanon, 1972 13:56.6, Tom Graves, Orland Park (Sandburg), 1977AA 13:57.7, Dave Walters, New Lenox (Lincoln-Way), 1973 13:59, Craig Virgin, Lebanon, 1971 14:00, Jim Spivey, Bensenville (Fenton), 1977AA 14:00.0, Jorge Torres, Wheeling, 1998 14:00, Jorge Torres (Sr.), Wheeling, 1998AA 14:03, Donald Sage, Elmhurst (York), 1999AA 14:06, Bill Fritz, Glen Ellyn (Glenbard West), 1973 14:08, Len Sitko, Niles (Notre Dame), 1986AA 14:08.5, Tom Graves, Orland Park (Sandburg), 1976AA 14:10.3, Ron Craker, Elmhurst (York), 1975 14:12, Daniel Haut, Lockport (Twp.), 2000AA 14:13, Craig Young, Stillman Valley, 1973 14:13, Dan Gilchrist, Rockford (East), 1975 14:14, Matt Withrow, Tinley Park (Andrew), 2002AA 14:14, Matt Withrow, Tinley Park (Andrew), 2003AA 14:14.3, Tom Marino, Hillside (Proviso West), 1974 14:15, Mike Marks, Riverside (R.-Brookfield), 1973 14:15, Jorge Torres (Jr.), Wheeling, 1997AA 14:16, Jim Spivey, Bensenville (Fenton), 1976 14:16, Randy Adler (Sr.), Alton (Sr.), 1976 14:16, Don Volkey, Belvidere, 1978AA 14:16, Donald Sage (Jr.), Elmhurst (York), 1998 14:17, Vadim Nemad, Skokie (Niles North), 1990AA 14:17, Zac Sartori, Lockport (Twp.), 2000AA 14:18, Arnie Jackson, Schaumburg, 1973 14:18, Jeremy Stevens, Winnebago, 2005A14:52 14:18.3, Jim Files, Springfield (Lamphier), 1979AA 14:18.5, Troy Maddux, Streator (Woodland), 1985A 14:20, Steve Finley, Palatine (H.S.), 2005AA 14:21, Ryan Craven, Mt. Prospect (Prospect), 2005AA 14:23, Evan Jager, Algonquin (Jacobs), 2005AA 14:26, Eric Dettman, Elmhurst (York), 2005AA 14:26, Jesse Luciano, Villa Park (Willowbrook), 2005AA 14:26, Kevin Havel, Arlington Hts. (Hersey), 2005AA 14:29, Christian Escareno, Rolling Meadows, 2005AA 14:29, Matt Dettman, Elmhurst (York), 2005AA 14:31, Bruce Mactaggart, Glen Ellyn (Glenbard South), 2005AA 14:32, Charlie Hatch, Nashvillle, 2005A 14:32.4, Sean McNamara, Elmhurst (York), 2004AA 14:34, Mark Battista, New Lenox (Lincoln-Way Central), 2005AA
|
|
rt20
All-State
Posts: 207
|
Post by rt20 on Nov 30, 2006 11:24:25 GMT -5
...(many) ran good in high school but i dont recall any of them breaking four. once jager breaks four he will be the best. state champ in cross, breaking four in the mile will make him number one. Donald Sage - 1999 XC champion, 2000 T&F 3:58... What high school race are you referring to where Sage ran that time? He ran 4:00.28(???something like that) in a mile the summer after his senior year.
|
|
|
Post by oldschool on Nov 30, 2006 17:31:15 GMT -5
Donald Sage - 1999 XC champion, 2000 T&F 3:58... What high school race are you referring to where Sage ran that time? He ran 4:00.28(???something like that) in a mile the summer after his senior year. You are probably correct about the "true mile" time of Sage...sorry, I've become too used to interchanging 1600m and mile. I don't recall the specifics of the 3:58 (and in fact it may have been the interim mark in the 4:00 mile). I believe that IHSA lists the 3:58 as the all-time best 1600. I'll see if I can find the link and post it.
|
|
|
Post by irishcc on Nov 30, 2006 17:35:01 GMT -5
I think that the comparison between Sage and Jager is a good one because they were really strong in the mile and also CC state champs.
Let's see how low Jager can take his mile time and then we will know if he ranks as the best.
|
|
packman
All-Conference
I have joined xcordie's ihsa revolution
Posts: 58
|
Post by packman on Dec 3, 2006 13:30:57 GMT -5
Honest Question...dosen't Jager now have the new corse record? If so then that would have to make him one of the all-time greats. I mean Winthrow and Stevens are great but IF Jager has the corse record that would mean he ran faster than eather of them. The question would then become how much faster does the old corse run than the new one?
|
|
|
Post by runningonempty on Dec 3, 2006 13:48:46 GMT -5
In answer to your question you are basing it on just one race. The question is who is the best to come out of the state in the past couple years. If you were going to base it on one race then why not the footlocker. One guy never even made it to the national when others have.
|
|
|
Post by kbrunner7 on Jan 19, 2007 22:36:31 GMT -5
I voted Jager. He would have been FLN champ if he had made it out of FLMW. He just had one bad race. He'll probably have an awesome track season.
|
|
|
Post by rollercoaster on Jan 30, 2007 14:15:45 GMT -5
I voted Jager. He would have been FLN champ if he had made it out of FLMW. He just had one bad race. He'll probably have an awesome track season. What kind of logic are you using for this statement? Heck, If I would have run FLMW and qualified for FLN, maybe I could have won it, too. Maybe you could have, too.
|
|
packman
All-Conference
I have joined xcordie's ihsa revolution
Posts: 58
|
Post by packman on Feb 2, 2007 12:32:04 GMT -5
Lets be real here could you have really won it? I'll give you the times where slow but some of those guys up front are real beast and should have given Jager a real race.
|
|
|
Post by dxnxcrnnr on Feb 7, 2007 22:09:02 GMT -5
I was at the foot locker regional race and at state. The Jager that ran at the foot locker was nothing like the Jager that ran at state. His form was broken as he was finish at the foot locker. At state he was solid for the entire race. Everyone has a bad race and I think Jager is still the best individual runner.
|
|
|
Post by dxnlgn on Feb 9, 2007 20:34:46 GMT -5
I think it has to be havel because what he is doing as a junior is unbeleivable and he will run times that are faster than jagers next year.....he is an amazimg talent..I saw him run that 4:31 in eighth grade and was just amazed if he stays healthy he will be amazimg
|
|