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Post by newpackman on Oct 21, 2007 20:26:42 GMT -5
Yeah I've run both course's, and as long as it wasn't wet at robinson that day then monticello runs slower. Nobody goes under 16 at monticello, course record is high 15:40's by Kramer from Shelbyville. Two years ago Butler from Monticello went just under 16 there, and went under 15:20 at state.
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Post by sparky791 on Oct 21, 2007 20:31:04 GMT -5
since i saw some rankings on here i thought i would post a little information my self... Robinson Invite: Tolono Unity 6th to Robinson, T-Town, Shelby,Cumberland, Charleston 6. Tolono Unity Brice Dodds (11) 18 -16:58 Jacob Kraft (12) 29 -17:23 Joel Thompson (11) 30 -17:32 Henry Dust (12) 38-17:44 Brett Booher (12) 52-18:07 Wes Hoffman (12) 18:36 Monticello Regional : Brice Dodds Jr. 2 16:35 Jacob Kraft Sr. 3 16:53 Joel Thompson Jr. 5 17:27 Nick Moore Sr. 6 17:35 Brett Booher Sr. 9 18:04 Wes Hoffman Sr. 14 18:43 I dont know how robinsons course compares to monticello but looks like some improvement has been shown .. just providing some more information Tolono is not the same team now that ran at Robinson. They are one of the most improved teams that I have watched the last two weeks. They have a real shot at getting out at Paxton.
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Post by panther1924 on Oct 21, 2007 21:20:14 GMT -5
Monticello's course is rather slow for some reason. The course has changed since Lucas Kramer's days though. I know the course changed a couple times back in 2000 and 2001 because they were doing construction in the park. The current course has not changed since 2002 and the course record is 15:50. Keith Butler ran 15:54 on his home course in 2005 and then ran 15:22 at state to get 13th.
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Post by circuit on Oct 21, 2007 21:34:50 GMT -5
I agree with dozer459 that the Beecher Regional course was tough. I didn't walk the whole course, but the hill (though shorter) rivals some that you find in southern illinois. The runners said that there were some ravines out on the 1 1/2 mile loop into the woods. Add in all the turns and the times were pretty good.
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Post by unbreakable89 on Oct 22, 2007 8:38:22 GMT -5
I agree with dozer459 that the Beecher Regional course was tough. I didn't walk the whole course, but the hill (though shorter) rivals some that you find in southern illinois. The runners said that there were some ravines out on the 1 1/2 mile loop into the woods. Add in all the turns and the times were pretty good. Yeah your right, Goodnow is tough. I think my fastest time there is like16:50 somthin, and that was a week after i ran a 16:24. The course definetly adds on a few secs, and to run it under 16 is no small task. Great job Matt.
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Post by volsxc1 on Oct 22, 2007 9:02:04 GMT -5
Kickapoo's course is a fairly slow/hilly course, not many spots to get into a rhythm. There is a small hill about 300m into the race and a steep 25-30m hill 500m in, then the third hill is just after 1200m in. It's a 1 mile loop course that they run three times. There are 2 sharp turns with many roots to deal with and gopher holes this time of year. Compared to Detweiller, it runs between 50 seconds to a minute slower. Since we're talking about time adjustments for different courses and toughness of courses, figured I'd add the info about Kickapoo's course.
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Post by sparky791 on Oct 22, 2007 11:53:26 GMT -5
I had nothing to do so I came up with a mock pbl sectional. I kept Monticello and Cumberland times the same and subtracted :30 seconds from SJO course and :10 from the Beecher course. I made a couple adjustments by adding Clark from Monticello at 16th place and put T-Towns foreign exchange runner back up with his teammates. Other than that everything is based on actual times run at regionals plus subtractions for SJO and Beecher.
Cumberland 116 Teutopolis 116 PBL 118 Beecher 129 SJO 144 Shelbyville 147 Tolono-Unity 165 Monticello 189 Urbana U-High 195
Top individuals
1. Paarlberg Beecher 15:36 2. Jones Oakwood 15:52 3. Pacey PBL 15:56 4. Feldhake St. Anthony 16:09 5. Brehm PBL 16:11 6. Rhodes Monticello 16:18 7. Carey Beecher 16:27 8. Powers Cumberland 16:28 9. Bloemer Teutopolis 16:30 10.Bostelmann Teutopolis 16:30 11. Dodds Tolono-unity 16:35 12. Taylor Urbana Uhigh 16:36 13. Reel Shelbyville 16:37 14. Deters Teutopolis 16:40 15. Nibbe Shelbyville 16:48 16. Clark Monticello 16:50 17. Cardossa PBL 16:50 18. Kraft Tolono-Unity 16:53 19. Lewis Newton 16:54 20. Matteson Cumberland 16:58
Just playing with numbers.
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Post by circuit on Oct 22, 2007 13:56:59 GMT -5
Sparky: I'm not sure Kickapoo is that much tougher than the Beecher Regional course.
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Post by sparky791 on Oct 22, 2007 14:19:16 GMT -5
Sparky: I'm not sure Kickapoo is that much tougher than the Beecher Regional course. You could be right. I have never been to Beecher so I don't know what that course runs like. For whatever reason Cumberland also ran slower than Monticello, at least for Shelbyville, which is not a fast course. But I left those two as the same. Point I think in all this is that PBL sectional is going to be close no matter what you do with regional times. These are in no way my predicitions. Just playing with times.
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Post by circuit on Oct 22, 2007 16:02:17 GMT -5
Sparky: close may not be adequate to describe the potential for the individual and team races
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Post by silent3runner on Oct 22, 2007 18:15:25 GMT -5
im gonan change my earlier predictions adn say: boys race:
1 T-Town 2 Cumberland 3 Beecher 4 PBL 5 Shelbyville
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Post by circuit on Oct 22, 2007 19:24:47 GMT -5
silent3runner: you must be from t-town. otherwise your prediction has changed quite a bit
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Post by pacemaker on Oct 22, 2007 19:39:37 GMT -5
i could see where he is right.. a week can make a lot of difference.. the only thing i would change is pbl with shelbyville
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Post by volsxc1 on Oct 23, 2007 9:02:38 GMT -5
I don't know why I didn't catch this earlier. Anyone know why Henry Dust was not in the line-up for Unity on Saturday. He is not in the results. He's usually right between Thyompson and Moore. This could make a difference in the scoring sparky did for predictions.
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Post by sparky791 on Oct 23, 2007 9:33:51 GMT -5
I don't know why I didn't catch this earlier. Anyone know why Henry Dust was not in the line-up for Unity on Saturday. He is not in the results. He's usually right between Thyompson and Moore. This could make a difference in the scoring sparky did for predictions. volsxc1 Nice pick-up. I am going to put him in. But if you look at regional results he is not even listed as a possible runner. I am also going to throw in what Shelbyville could do with Selby running like usual in the 17:50 range since I put Clark and Bostellman in the race. It may change some things.
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Post by sparky791 on Oct 23, 2007 9:34:56 GMT -5
I don't know why I didn't catch this earlier. Anyone know why Henry Dust was not in the line-up for Unity on Saturday. He is not in the results. He's usually right between Thyompson and Moore. This could make a difference in the scoring sparky did for predictions. volsxc1 Nice pick-up. I am going to put him in. But if you look at regional results he is not even listed as a possible runner. I am also going to throw in what Shelbyville could do with Selby running like usual in the 17:50 range since I put Clark and Bostellman in the race. It may change some things. Just another scenerio.
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Post by volsxc1 on Oct 23, 2007 10:39:05 GMT -5
I did notice that, hopefully it's just a screw-up and he's not really out. That would be really too bad for Unity if that's the case. While you're plugging people in. Baker for SJO had a really off day on Saturday. On PBL's course the last few times he's ran, he's usually 10-15sec behind Blaase of SJO.
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Post by sparky791 on Oct 23, 2007 11:27:43 GMT -5
I did notice that, hopefully it's just a screw-up and he's not really out. That would be really too bad for Unity if that's the case. While you're plugging people in. Baker for SJO had a really off day on Saturday. On PBL's course the last few times he's ran, he's usually 10-15sec behind Blaase of SJO. Just noticed about Baker. I already made the mock meet up. But I will subtract roughly 25 points off of SJO. That takes them from 162 to 147. Here is what I came up with. I changed a few things. I only subtracted 20 seconds instead of 30 from SJO. I felt the 30 was probably too much to equal Monticello and Cumberland which both ran slow. Still subtracted 10 from Beecher. Also remember I put Clark back in and also moved Foley up where he should be. Bostellman and Selby moved up to normal places. Other than that everything the same. A few changes from earlier. 1. Cumberland 96 2. Teutopolis 109 With Bostlemann running better 3. PBL 109 4. Beecher 118 5. Shelbyville 122 With Selby running Better 6. SJO 147 With Baker Running Better 7. Tolono-Unity 160 8. Monticello 171 With Clark and Foley Running Better 9. Urbana UH 218 ***Another side note. I did not move up Baker from Shelbyville to his normal #2 spot. He was only 9 seconds back of Reel at conference. That would move Shelbyville up around T-Town and PBL. I really think your top five right now in no particular order are: Cumberland T-town Beecher PBL Shelbyville If any of those teams has an off day then Tolono, with Dust, and SJO will step in.
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Post by volsxc1 on Oct 23, 2007 11:40:00 GMT -5
Kickapoo may be as much as 35 seconds slower than PBL's course due to the inability to get into a rhythm on the course. Typically as compared to Detweiller, you can take about a minute off your time from Kickapoo to Detweiller's course. With Beecher's course, is that hill the only big spot on the course? Is there any flat sections, or is it up and down? Just trying to get a judge for that course besides the one major hill that I hear is enormous. Kickapoo's hills aren't very big, it's just the placement that really slows the times down. You don't have any sections longer than 300m to get into a rhythm on.
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Post by circuit on Oct 23, 2007 14:24:09 GMT -5
Volsxc1: Didn't walk the whole Beecher course because after the hill and the plain, it goes out into the woods for 1 1/2 miles plus. The runners said there were some up and down ravines out in the woods but the course was grass most of the way. The hill is much bigger than anything at Kickapoo or the hill at Illini Meadows. There were a lot of turns at the beginning and end and the map seemed to show some turns out in the woods. Probably the course, like Kickapoo, is not condusive to establishing rythmn
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Post by volsxc1 on Oct 23, 2007 15:52:57 GMT -5
Figured out the missing Dust for Unity. He did run and the results had a typo....Nick Moore runs for Tuscola....for some reason his name is down on the Unity results. According to our paper Dust placed 7th in 17:35, so that may change Unity's placement in your mock meet Sparky. I figured it out when I remember Unity only has 6 boys.
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Post by westrunner1 on Oct 23, 2007 16:43:00 GMT -5
I have ran beecher before and all I have to say is Beechers Course is the HARDEST course I have ever ran and ever will run!!! For Paarleberg to go under 16 on that course is unbeilivable! I have to put him up there with the top five in state. I would also subract at least 45 seconds for that course to PBL's course.
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ochocinco
Contributor
Cursed by the number 4
Posts: 33
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Post by ochocinco on Oct 23, 2007 16:55:07 GMT -5
Not to be bashing anybody but I think people arent taking into account how slow the PBL course is because it is different from last year. It is a lot slower than last year. Not one person has broken 16 on it and Justin Jones, Brent Rhodes, and the guys from PBL have ran on it. Id say 10 to 20 seconds off Beecher and 20 to 30 seconds off of Kickapoo. Im not really sure about Cumberlands course. I could definitely see the winning time only being around 15:45.
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Post by volsxc1 on Oct 23, 2007 17:40:46 GMT -5
ochocinco: i couldn't agree with you more. What I was taking into account for my Kickapoo conversions were times that people ran at Kickapoo vs. what they ran at PBL this year. The PBL course is NOT a fast course. I can see the winning time being low to mid 15:40's possibly (If it's not too windy, since there is little to no windblock from the interstate). The course is very rugged in the new section. I've been to PBL twice and the times I've seen convert roughly to about 35 seconds faster than Kickapoo, just from what i've seen. Pacey I know has run below 16:10 on it a few times and Jones has run close to 16:00 as well as Rhodes on that course in smaller races later in the year. In a Sectional type race there will be probably 3-5 people at or under 16:00 just with competition and adrenaline alone. But that's why they run the races, anything can happen on that day, our predictions mean nothing more than fun discussion, so I look forward to seeing a great meet and hopefully a few upsets along the way.
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Post by westrunner1 on Oct 23, 2007 17:41:25 GMT -5
I have ran the PBL course multiple times and I have ran Beecher a few times and I am telling you out of all the years I have ran, their is no course tougher than beecher!!!!!! Plus at the regional at beecher PBL beat beecher by one. If it wasnt a dual meet beecher would have won by a lot more due to PBL's #5 being so far back.
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twin2
New Member
Posts: 7
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Post by twin2 on Oct 23, 2007 18:00:29 GMT -5
My PBL Sectional predictions for placing are as follows:
1. Cumberland-Great Pack 2. Shelbyville-#5 runner is key, team can be anywhere from 1-5 3. PBL-runs strong on their home course 4. Beecher-good front runners 5. T-Town-if exchange student runs well could be right up there at the front 6. SJO-nice pack may surprise for that 5th spot 7. Tolono-can make some noise in this meet, as a darkhorse 8. Monticello-what does Coach Butler have up his sleeve 9. Urbana Uni High-can their 4 and 5 runners pick up the pace
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tfxc
Contributor
Posts: 46
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Post by tfxc on Oct 23, 2007 18:15:53 GMT -5
Boys 1. Shelbyville - Coach K has them ready to go 2. T-town - Have been good all year, but noone has noticed 3. Cumberland - May have peeked to early 4. Beecher - Starting to come on strong 5. St Joe - Might finish even higher 6. Unity - Could surprise if someone falters 7. Monticello - Too many injuries 8. PBL - maybe just overrated
Girls 1. Uni High - they will get it going this weekend 2. St. Joe - Could maybe even win this 3. Beecher - Average early in the year, very good now 4. C A M - Best of the rest 5. T-Town - it is a coin toss 6. Heyworth - Looks like you lost the coin toss
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Post by hammer on Oct 23, 2007 19:16:57 GMT -5
Boys 1. Shelbyville - Coach K has them ready to go 2. T-town - Have been good all year, but noone has noticed 3. Cumberland - May have peeked to early 4. Beecher - Starting to come on strong 5. St Joe - Might finish even higher 6. Unity - Could surprise if someone falters 7. Monticello - Too many injuries 8. PBL - maybe just overrated Girls 1. Uni High - they will get it going this weekend 2. St. Joe - Could maybe even win this 3. Beecher - Average early in the year, very good now 4. C A M - Best of the rest 5. T-Town - it is a coin toss 6. Heyworth - Looks like you lost the coin toss I think it is worth noting altough Heyworth has some nice girls who run well and made it out of the regional. They didn't make it as a team. So a 6th place finish is not going to happen this year for them.
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sc225
New Member
217 represent
Posts: 3
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Post by sc225 on Oct 23, 2007 19:53:48 GMT -5
tfxc: You have PBL going eighth? Even after they won their regional? Sure, maybe in a bigger meet Beecher could have won it, the key word being could. Considering the St. Joe invite was a while back, if I remember correctly, PBL has beat SJO, Cumberland and Tolono. Yes I know most teams have gotten a bit better since then, but that doesn't mean PBL hasn't gotten better also. Don't get me wrong here, yes its a possibility PBL could go anywhere from winning on a great day to not making it out. Just don't be surprised if they finish a little higher than eighth.
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Post by sparky791 on Oct 23, 2007 19:59:04 GMT -5
Figured out the missing Dust for Unity. He did run and the results had a typo....Nick Moore runs for Tuscola....for some reason his name is down on the Unity results. According to our paper Dust placed 7th in 17:35, so that may change Unity's placement in your mock meet Sparky. I figured it out when I remember Unity only has 6 boys. Thanks, that puts Unity back behind SJO. I put the correct score on other post.
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