ochocinco
Contributor
Cursed by the number 4
Posts: 33
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Post by ochocinco on Oct 17, 2007 18:01:57 GMT -5
Right now i cant see anybody being able to challenge P.T. His last 800 is ridiculous. At SJO i was with him at the 2 and one half mile and then he took off and beat me by over 20 seconds. i think Parker will win with Feldhake second and a pack of about 5-10 guys after that. One guy to definitely watch out for is Justin Jones. Ive raced against him in a few meets and he seems to be getting better and better.
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Post by oldskool on Oct 17, 2007 19:25:51 GMT -5
Everyone is making really valid observations on here.
All I can say is nobody is running with as much confidence as Parker is right now. He's undefeated at all invites this year and is 1-0 against both Feldhake and Jones (put a good 9-15 seconds on them both at SJO in the last 3/4 of a mile). Few A runners exhibit the maturity and patience he does time and time again.
The problem is that confidence may be his downfall. I truly think that if someone blasts the first 2 miles he's toast, or at worst vulnerable.
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Post by born2run on Oct 17, 2007 19:31:50 GMT -5
Even if the pack goes out fast, and tries to neutralize Parker's kick, they will feel the effects of the pace same as PT will.
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Post by newpackman on Oct 17, 2007 19:39:27 GMT -5
I don't know. I watched Matt race at St. Joe, and he looked like he was trying to have a fast paced race, but he just flared out at the end. The pace came back and got Matt, and then Parker took everybody in the end. Just asking but who are you ochocino? If you don't want to say that's cool. I just wanted to know where Parker was at the two and a half mile mark.
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ochocinco
Contributor
Cursed by the number 4
Posts: 33
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Post by ochocinco on Oct 17, 2007 19:58:54 GMT -5
Nick Brehm, I go to PBL
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Post by redemption on Oct 17, 2007 20:10:26 GMT -5
It will be a guts race. No question about it. Who wants it the most?
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Post by pacemaker on Oct 17, 2007 20:10:31 GMT -5
I don't know. I watched Matt race at St. Joe, and he looked like he was trying to have a fast paced race, but he just flared out at the end. Hey, any race with those guys is a fast race, right? ;D
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benmanion
All-State
"It's not just what you do that matters, it's how you do it"
Posts: 124
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Post by benmanion on Oct 17, 2007 20:20:12 GMT -5
born2run - I completely disagree and that can be proven both scientifically and factually. Think about it for a minute. Two people that go out at 4:45 don't feel exactly the same and that goes for hitting the 2 in 9:40. Otherwise the lead pack would never see any type of separation. Additionally, some runners can suffer longer than others. One of the keys to running really fast is the ability to find a rhythm and run controlled at a very fast pace.
Also, there is an element of strategy involved in winning races at this level. There are things that runners can do to mess with guys mentally to take them out of their game. I both did this to runners and had it done to me in high school and in college. It is an absolute fact that someone could go out and burn out PT and neutralize his closing speed. There have been plenty of guys who have the kind of speed and talent of PT (and even better) that this has happened to at the state meet. In fact, a very good friend of mine had this happen to him - Steve Watson. Steve, just prior to state, had run 14:42 on a course that is about 20 seconds slower than detweiler. Steve was the eventual AA state champ, but he had his speed neutralized because the leaders took him out and burned him up. I like PT - he is really good and I think he is 1 or 2 IMO...but he is beatable. Everyone is for that matter.
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Post by born2run on Oct 17, 2007 20:43:00 GMT -5
I see your point, I just think that the lead pack might try to burn out PT and burn themselves out in the precess. But then again the guys at the front are most likely experienced enough not to do that. Either way it will get interesting.
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Post by newpackman on Oct 17, 2007 21:13:14 GMT -5
Ochocinco, was it you and Parker together, behind Jones and Feldhake? If so what kind of gap was it? Yeah nobody is unbeatable.
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ochocinco
Contributor
Cursed by the number 4
Posts: 33
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Post by ochocinco on Oct 17, 2007 21:29:08 GMT -5
there was about 6 or 7 of us at the 2 mile. id say we were about 20 to 40 meters ahead but im not really sure at the 2 and 1/2? parker took off like i said. i dont have much of a kick so i had no chance and then i pretty much died. jones passed me with about 300 to go and feldhake with about 100. sry im not really sure how big the gap was. with soccer now over it will be interesting to see how matt does. i hope he can get better. good luck to everybody
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Post by newpackman on Oct 17, 2007 21:54:54 GMT -5
Ok. You jogged my memory a bit. I remember Parker hitting the track totally in control, then Jones, then you, then Matt. Well Ochocinco, good luck at sectionals to your team. This thing should be pretty crazy.
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benmanion
All-State
"It's not just what you do that matters, it's how you do it"
Posts: 124
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Post by benmanion on Oct 17, 2007 22:19:25 GMT -5
born2run I agree with you on that point. The challenge for runners who don't have a lot of leg speed but do have a lot of guts is to go out just hard enough to drop your opponents, but not so hard you drop yourself.
I had a race one time that about 100 meters after the 2 mile there was a long gradual hill (probably about 600-800m long). As soon as we turned to go up the hill I took off as hard as I could go. I absolutely dropped the guy I was running with in the race. We went through somewhere around 9:47-9:50 at the 2, so the dude was pretty good. I just remember burying the guy and almost burying myself. It was everything I could do to finish the racè and even though I struggled big time the last 8 I ended up beating the guy by 30-45 seconds or more (I think). It just killed him mentally and the guy fell apart.
ochocinco - good luck. If you can hang for 2.5 you can hang for another 800. I hope you do really well. Remember that the kick has as much to do with your will to win as it does leg speed!
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Post by runnerfan on Oct 17, 2007 22:29:06 GMT -5
Every one is talking about Thompson’s superior speed…In cross that doesn’t mean anything. If Thompson is always kicking people down at the end of a race that means he has more left than everyone else. In other words he is more aerobically fit. I could see if he is out sprinting people in the last 200 meters, but from what I hear it is over a 800 meter stretch that he drops people. If the pace goes out hard and Thompson just sits back and lets the leader do all the work no one can touch him over the last mile.
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benmanion
All-State
"It's not just what you do that matters, it's how you do it"
Posts: 124
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Post by benmanion on Oct 17, 2007 22:30:14 GMT -5
I want to encourage guys like ochocinco to believe that you are good enough to win. You can read this thread and some have all but crowned PT and Matt F. the champion, but you gotta believe that you belong in the discussion and that you have a chance to win. There is a poem that I used to think about before every race that basically said the strongest and the fastest don't always win the race, but the runner who thinks they can win.
That is the problem I have when threads sound as if a guy cannot be beaten and all of his competitors read these things and they start to believe it too. The race is sometimes won by those who believe they can win...so BELIEVE. If you don't then you are already beaten.
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kcor
All-State
10%
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Post by kcor on Oct 17, 2007 22:39:29 GMT -5
Hey guys what happened to Thompson at state last year??? ;D
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Post by redemption on Oct 17, 2007 22:52:07 GMT -5
he went with feldhake and died....is that what feldhake is doing again this year? even if nobody knows, he will have to make it with authority so nobody can come back on him.
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Post by newpackman on Oct 17, 2007 23:20:04 GMT -5
Agreed. I don't know if Matt should try the same race plan twice in a row? Also this year I think Matt will have more then just Thompson going with him. There could be upword of six guys giving chase. I'd like to see him try and play catch me if you can. I can't count the number of times I've watched Matt race, and he seems to have the most succes when he just goes from the gun and says come get me.
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Post by redemption on Oct 18, 2007 0:08:20 GMT -5
We will just have to wait and see. I can't wait to watch.
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Post by badkarma96 on Oct 18, 2007 7:44:50 GMT -5
Hey guys what happened to Thompson at state last year??? ;D I think Thompson let his youthful exuberance get the best of him last year and he paid for it. I also think he learned a good lesson about patience in a three mile race and running to his strengths, which are considerable. He think he realized the the Prefontaine strategy doesn't really work for him.
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Post by oldskool on Oct 18, 2007 8:08:47 GMT -5
I need to add a bit to what happened last year. Parker had a health issue, and I don't know specifically if it was a hormone issue or an iron issue, etc. Either way, he was in a bad state after finishing and doctors determined it was something with his levels. It wasn't exuberance or being over-excited, but really was a legitimate health problem. Our family is good friends with his, so I can vouch for this. Check out the color of his face in this photo, before he collapsed at the finish: ivs.org/PhotoAlbum/2006%20Slide%20Shows/State%20Finals/pages/2006StateracePics%20393_JPG.htmI also feel bad touting him so hard and then dissecting what it'll take to beat him. Anything can happen on Nov. 3, and Parker is my personal favorite.
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Post by redemption on Oct 18, 2007 8:45:14 GMT -5
ahh i see what the problem was. He was dressed for a runners blizzard. What i mean by that is he is wearing what i would wear if it had been 10 degrees outside, -10 degree windchill, and snowing. Of course oldskool your right with the health situation if your friends with him, but you think wearing all the clothes helped. It wasn't that cold last year at state.
I have by the way ran a race that was 17 degrees with merely shorts and a tank top before. About 8 inches of snow covered the ground, and we ran through marsh fields that after the leaders had ran through became a swamp. The water froze to your skin in seconds.
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Post by badkarma96 on Oct 19, 2007 10:47:05 GMT -5
I remember seeing pictures of him at State last year and I wondered why he was the only guy wearing tights, a long sleeve shirt, hat and gloves.
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Post by newpackman on Oct 19, 2007 10:52:26 GMT -5
You wanna see a nice guy really struggleing look behind him. Nathen Wartsler is having trouble in the back round. Wartsler was fighting sickness all season, and I want to say he finished 26th. Man that guy was so cool, really a class act. Well I don't know about health or youth with Parker, I just know don't crown him yet.
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Post by badkarma96 on Oct 19, 2007 11:59:09 GMT -5
Warstler finished in 12th place, right behind Thompson. Seth Schultz from Elmwood got 26th.
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Post by newpackman on Oct 19, 2007 13:01:27 GMT -5
My bad. I just remember he didn't run what he was able to do. We raced G-Town twice a year, and Nathen was way up front at alot of those races. Best example is his 2nd place finish at St. Joe his junior year. He was a really tuff kid and his mohawk just made him cooler.
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Post by wornflats on Oct 25, 2007 0:20:37 GMT -5
I agree that the only way to beat Parker Thompson is to set a blistering early pace to break him or take away his finishing kick. The problem is that it takes a very special athlete to set that kind of pace. I seriously doubt that llinois has anyone of that caliber in class A this year.
It isn't enough to emphasize that Thompson was runnerup in the state 800 as a sophomore or that he finished first in the 1600. The significant factor is that he did both things on the same hot day after running 1:55/4:21 in the prelims the day before. It takes a tremendous amount of strength and endurance to pull off that double at any age, let alone as a sophomore.
Thompson runs very much like Tim Broe, who was a two time AA cross country champion. Broe didn't care about pace or time. He only cared about winning. He would just settle into the lead pack until a certain point in the final mile and then blow everybody away with a long finishing kick.
Because of that attitude, many people (Broe included) weren't convinced that he was a legitimate distance runner. It was many years later when Broe made the finals of the Olympic 5000, that people finally acknowledged how much distance talent he actually had.
In my opinion, Parker Thompson is another elite distance runner who is currently being mislabeled as a very good 800/1600 runner. It won't matter if the early pace of the state finals is slow or unbelievably fast. Either way, Parker Thompson will hang with the lead pack until the final mile and then leave everybody in the dust.
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Post by redemption on Oct 25, 2007 8:16:58 GMT -5
Broe was great!
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Post by newpackman on Oct 25, 2007 9:37:29 GMT -5
Ha ha I loved ol Timmy. Man it's to bad that he's givin it up. I can't wait for the state meet, just to hear him do the commentary.
On another note. Parker is a great runner, but he can be broken. Everybody has a pace that will break them, and the question at state will be can anybody hold the pace it takes to break PT. It's gonna take alot of guts to do it, but I don't think if somebody trys it they will be alone. My guess is that Feldhake, Tedrick, Peterson, and Jones will want to make sure the pace is hot, and the four of them my be able to share the load of breaking Parker. Kind of a truce untill about a mile, to half mile to go, and then they deal with each other. ;D
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benmanion
All-State
"It's not just what you do that matters, it's how you do it"
Posts: 124
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Post by benmanion on Oct 25, 2007 17:48:33 GMT -5
newpackman - I agree with you completely. It will, however, be a very difficult strategy to execute, but one that isn't outside the realm of possibility. I think that PT is an outstanding talent, but I will also say that there have been plenty of guys with even more talent in the 8 & 16 that didn't win the state title. That being said, I am certainly not saying PT isn't going to win the title. I actually lean towards him winning the title. However, I have been around long enough to know that come race day anything is possible. One or two of these guys could execute a perfect race strategy that drops him in the middle mile enough that even his kick wouldn't be enough to overcome. Whatever happens I hope that everyone runs the best race they can. It is going to be a good one!
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